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Old 10-06-2013, 11:07 AM  
banyon banyon is online now
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John Kerry ceding away US sovereignty to global corporations

While the right hand is distracting us with the shiny object of government shutdown, here's what the left hand is doing:

As the federal government shutdown continues, Secretary of State John Kerry heads to Asia for secret talks on a sweeping new trade deal, the Trans-Pacific Partnership. The TPP is often referred to by critics as "NAFTA on steroids," and would establish a free trade zone that would stretch from Vietnam to Chile, encompassing 800 million people — about a third of world trade and nearly 40 percent of the global economy. While the text of the treaty has been largely negotiated behind closed doors and, until June, kept secret from Congress, more than 600 corporate advisers reportedly have access to the measure, including employees of Halliburton and Monsanto. "This is not mainly about trade," says Lori Wallach, director of Public Citizen’s Global Trade Watch. "It is a corporate Trojan horse. The agreement has 29 chapters, and only five of them have to do with trade. The other 24 chapters either handcuff our domestic governments, limiting food safety, environmental standards, financial regulation, energy and climate policy, or establishing new powers for corporations."

TRANSCRIPT

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: President Obama announced this week that the U.S. government shutdown would delay his upcoming four-country trip to Asia, but that negotiations on a controversial new trade agreement he hopes to sign by the end of the year will continue to move forward. Obama called the Philippines president Tuesday night to say he would miss his visit, and a spokesperson shared the news with reporters Thursday.

RICKY CARANDANG: Secretary Kerry ... he will go in place of President Obama. President Obama personally called President Aquino to tell him—to explain to him why he could not make the visit.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: John Kerry will attend Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation meetings next week in Indonesia, where he’ll push for the completion of a sweeping new trade deal called the Trans-Pacific Partnership, the largest international trade deal since the creation of the World Trade Organization in 1995. The administration hopes to pass the measure through Congress by the end of the year using its Fast Track authority to limit lawmakers to an up-or-down vote.

AMY GOODMAN: The TPP is often referred to by critics as "NAFTA on steroids" and would establishing a free trade zone that would stretch from Vietnam to Chile, encompass 800 million people—about a third of world trade and nearly 40 percent of the global economy. While the text of the treaty has been largely negotiated behind closed doors, more than 600 corporate advisers reportedly have access to the measure, including employees of Halliburton and Monsanto.

http://www.democracynow.org/2013/10/...e_obama_pushes

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Old 01-31-2014, 06:15 PM   #46
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Old 01-31-2014, 06:19 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Making poverty comfortable and enhancing the spending power of our consumption classes are counter-productive.

BTW, to the extent that citizens of these trading partners see their ability to consume increased, the markets for our exports grow, so that part isn't all bad.
I'm just a caveman, but the first sentence frightens and confuses me, in no way am I advocating to make it easier for poverty to be comfortable on the govt. tit... but isn't "consumption class" just another way of saying "middle class"?

How could it be a bad thing for the working class to have more money to spend on goods and services, isn't that why every president ever encourages Americans to "quit worrying, get out there and spend, live your lives", isn't that what keeps this country thriving, a constant exchange of money within this country?... maybe I'm just misunderstanding, but it seems like you're saying the middle class doesn't need any more than they already have.

The middle/working class is sucking shit in this country right now.

The second part gets back to my original point... why is it great for foreigners to have expendable income for our goods, but Americans need to have less?

So these companies that ship jobs overseas, save money by doing so and get taxed on those goods, but doesn't that tax money just accumulate in government hands? That may be good for big government, but its hard to see how it enhances life for people who actually work for their money and spend it here in the US.

I can kinda see this circling around behind/against me... "yes the corporations rake it in and you just need to hope their tax dollars somehow benefit you/other Americans more than good paying jobs do".

But I bet most working class Americans would rather have that good job than to hope that Uncle Sam spends that money in a way that benefits them... cant say enough about how little I understand the specifics, but this cycle seems to only benefit either government or ceo's/shareholders... not middle class/working Americans.
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Old 01-31-2014, 07:10 PM   #48
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Originally Posted by scott free View Post
I'm just a caveman, but the first sentence frightens and confuses me, in no way am I advocating to make it easier for poverty to be comfortable on the govt. tit... but isn't "consumption class" just another way of saying "middle class"?

How could it be a bad thing for the working class to have more money to spend on goods and services, isn't that why every president ever encourages Americans to "quit worrying, get out there and spend, live your lives", isn't that what keeps this country thriving, a constant exchange of money within this country?... maybe I'm just misunderstanding, but it seems like you're saying the middle class doesn't need any more than they already have.

The middle/working class is sucking shit in this country right now.
Yes, a large swath of the middle class is in what I would call the consumption class. But much of it doesn't have to be.

It's not a bad thing for the working class and/or the middle class to have more money and I want that to happen. But instead of encouraging them to spend every last dime, our system should encourage them to save/invest more, relatively speaking.

Presidents encourage spending during difficult economic times because it provides short term benefits and because psychology has a big effect on the economy.

This transition is long overdue and the longer it is delayed by protectionist practices and misguided attempts to keep the economy rolling through demand stimulus, the harder the transition will be. That said, I understand that we can't immediately make such a difficult transition and that it would be easier to make it during prosperous times (but also easier to ignore during those times).

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Originally Posted by scott free View Post
The second part gets back to my original point... why is it great for foreigners to have expendable income for our goods, but Americans need to have less?
Our goal shouldn't be to enrich foreign consumers. I just mentioned it as a silver lining.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scott free View Post
So these companies that ship jobs overseas, save money by doing so and get taxed on those goods, but doesn't that tax money just accumulate in government hands? That may be good for big government, but its hard to see how it enhances life for people who actually work for their money and spend it here in the US.

I can kinda see this circling around behind/against me... "yes the corporations rake it in and you just need to hope their tax dollars somehow benefit you/other Americans more than good paying jobs do".

But I bet most working class Americans would rather have that good job than to hope that Uncle Sam spends that money in a way that benefits them... cant say enough about how little I understand the specifics, but this cycle seems to only benefit either government or ceo's/shareholders... not middle class/working Americans.
You won't find me cheerleading for accumulations of tax revenue in the hands of big government. The benefit of an export economy is not to enrich government, it's to build jobs at home in export industries. Part of my particular (not necessarily well-thought-out) vision for this transition includes a lower tax burden on business, not a higher one.

The old model economy based on consumption in the dominant American market is a dead end. The American market is shrinking relative to the total global market. Selling to Americans is fine, but if you can't compete in the growing export market, you're whistling past the graveyard.

Oh, and when we strive to put money into the hands of American consumers hoping to prime the pump of the American economy, what percentage of that money ends up being siphoned off to foreign companies through the purchase of imports (cars, chinese goods at walmart, foreign built electronics, etc.).
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Old 01-31-2014, 07:22 PM   #49
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Thanks for a well though out, time consuming post, Pat... I don't think we're that far apart here.

To the last sentence, its inevitable that some of that spending goes to foreign cars, chinese crap from wal-mart etc... but that's just the price paid IMO, I'm for the American middle/working class and we're getting the big fat shaft in this global economy right now.
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Old 02-01-2014, 06:52 AM   #50
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Were actually looking to join an existing trade agreement between a handful of countries. Once the US joined happened a bunch of other ally type countries applied. I'm sure it will end up looking very different from the original agreement.

Were also negotiating a Trans Atlantic trade agreement as well (TTIP) between the US-EU
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