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Old 01-30-2014, 11:29 AM  
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If we want more income equality.....

If we want more income equality, should we return to the economy of George W. Bush?
BY JIM LINDGREN
January 28 at 5:41 am

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Other things being equal, income equality is better than inequality. But other things are NOT equal. The easiest way to make incomes more equal in the short run is to have a recession.

Much has been made of growing income inequality since 1979, but very little attention has been paid to which of the four presidental administrations preceding Barack Obama increased income equality and which ones reduced it. In short, the two presidents whose terms involved improving income equality were the two George Bushes and the two whose terms were associated with worsening after-tax income equality were Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton. It is probably not an accident that the two presidents in whose administrations the GDP grew the most were the two presidents whose time in office coincided with worsening income equality.

The president under whom the poorest quintile enjoyed the largest increase in after-tax household income was George W. Bush. And the two administrations under whom the richest quintile and richest 1 percent fared the worst were the two Presidents Bush. Among Barack Obama’s four immediate predecessors, the two biggest income equalizers were George H.W. Bush and George W. Bush.

Just to be clear, I am not pining for the good old days of the economy of George W. Bush.


But George W. Bush was the most successful of our recent past presidents in achieving very substantial increases in incomes for the poorest quintile (+18.4%), while keeping gains for the richest quintile and richest 1 percent at modest levels. For example, under Bush the Younger, the incomes of the richest 1 percent rose only 6.5 percent in eight years, compared to a staggering 84 percent under Clinton and 91 percent under Reagan.
If you would rather have Bill Clinton’s economy than George W. Bush’s economy – and I definitely would – then as a practical matter you probably don’t care overmuch about income equality.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/v...george-w-bush/
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Old 02-04-2014, 05:37 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Well, if Rent seeking is claiming profits without producing.

Like claiming the profits of a factory because you own the land.

Then modern day, claiming the majority of the profits because "technology" increased the production of those who actual produce, is also Rent Seeking.

As article posted awhile back talked about share holders over workers is bad. Same ballpark.

Explain why its not.

And then also explain who then does deserve the profit off of increased productivity of the workers if the workers themselves don't deserve any.

Unless your not defending stagnant wages and just here to distract like usual.
Claiming a proportionate share of the fruits of production as the degree to which you contribute to that production is not rent seeking. Production does not just come from labor, but also from capital (including the technology enhancement in my example). The return on that production is owed not just to labor but also to the capitalist (who may or may not be the same person). If a carpenter increases his own productivity by using tools he bought for himself, then he deserves to be rewarded for the increased productivity.

Not all rent seeking deserves scorn anyway. When employees unionize in an effort to drive up their wages by tilting the labor market in their favor, that's rent seeking. I don't suppose you're going to complain about that though, are you?
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Old 02-05-2014, 06:44 AM   #167
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
That's not an answer to my question.
Nothing you have given has been an answer to the question.

I'll answer yours when you actually answer mine.

Coward.
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Old 02-05-2014, 06:47 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Claiming a proportionate share of the fruits of production as the degree to which you contribute to that production is not rent seeking. Production does not just come from labor, but also from capital (including the technology enhancement in my example). The return on that production is owed not just to labor but also to the capitalist (who may or may not be the same person). If a carpenter increases his own productivity by using tools he bought for himself, then he deserves to be rewarded for the increased productivity.

Not all rent seeking deserves scorn anyway. When employees unionize in an effort to drive up their wages by tilting the labor market in their favor, that's rent seeking. I don't suppose you're going to complain about that though, are you?
I like how you lead with proportionate share.

The argument is they aren't getting a proportionate share.

Shall I post the graphs again?

Yes, labor and capital.

But that isn't a defense for the unappropriated share of profit not going to those who actual produce.

Stagnant wages isn't proportionate share.

Unions aren't rent seeking. Thanks for clearing up that you have no idea what you are talking about though.
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Old 02-05-2014, 06:51 AM   #169
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People jump all over BEP for her occasional anecdotal examples.
But excuse it in others--regularly.
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Old 02-05-2014, 07:03 AM   #170
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Rent seeking?

Higher education is all about rent seeking. I see Loneiguana doesn't address that kind of rent seeking. Plenty of Loneiguana's remedies are rent seeking themselves.
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Old 02-05-2014, 07:05 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Rent seeking?

Higher education is all about rent seeking. I see Loneiguana doesn't address that kind of rent seeking. Plenty of Loneiguana's remedies are rent seeking themselves.
Look, BEP doesn't know what Rent Seeking is.
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Old 02-05-2014, 07:07 AM   #172
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So do we agree that the minimum wage should be 25 dollars an hour?

Do I hear 30?
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Old 02-05-2014, 07:11 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by Fairplay View Post
So do we agree that the minimum wage should be 25 dollars an hour?

Do I hear 30?
"Thirty dollars, now 35, now 35, will you give me 35? Thirty-Five dollars, now 40, now 40, will you give me 40?"
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Old 02-05-2014, 07:12 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by Fairplay View Post
So do we agree that the minimum wage should be 25 dollars an hour?

Do I hear 30?
Another example of a conservative who can only argue by writing the opponents script for them.

Strawmen make such great rebuttals.
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Old 02-05-2014, 07:13 AM   #175
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Old 02-05-2014, 07:31 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
I like how you lead with proportionate share.

The argument is they aren't getting a proportionate share.

Shall I post the graphs again?

Yes, labor and capital.

But that isn't a defense for the unappropriated share of profit not going to those who actual produce.
No, it's exactly a proportionate share:
Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
No, the workers are contributing to the producing. If your job is to mindlessly punch a button every few seconds all day long, it doesn't matter whether each button push creates one widget or 100 widgets (as a result of the technology behind the button), you're still doing the same job and can be replaced by the same pool of potential button pushers. In that example, the worker creating 100 widgets per button push is no more productive than the worker creating 1 widget. The worker plus technology is 100x more productive though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Unions aren't rent seeking. Thanks for clearing up that you have no idea what you are talking about though.
If the union is strong enough to dictate labor terms, it's technically a form of rent seeking just as a dominant employer taking advantage of workers with no job mobility could technically be rent seeking. But in reality, the most common form of rent seeking is the entity who lobbies the government for interference in the market that gives him an unnatural advantage when it comes to the distribution of profits. There are both capitalists and unions, among others, who do this in today's world. My example about technology isn't rent seeking though.
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Old 02-05-2014, 07:44 AM   #177
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ACA is another example of rent seeking but I'm sure Lonepeopleworkersparty endorses it.
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Old 02-05-2014, 07:48 AM   #178
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Minimum wage demands are rent seeking.

Rent-seeking
Rent-seeking is a concept used to describe the activity of individuals or firms who attempt to obtain or maintain wealth-transfers, primarily with the help of the state.

More specifically instead of making a productive contribution to an economy, a rent-seeker attempts to obtain benefits for themselves by manipulating the political environment.

Rent-seeking has also been defined as the process whereby one is able to obtain a greater rent, i.e. return, than would have been possible on the free market, through activities such as government lobbying or taking advantage of other connections to the state.

Rent-seeking is seen as unproductive or a wasteful activity, as it results in wealth being transferred from productive individuals and firms to the rent-seekers.

Examples of rent-seeking include things such as obtaining government bailouts, subsidies or having the state enact and enforce barriers to entry. The formulation of the concept is credited to Gordon Tullock, while the idea of the phrase "rent-seeking" is credited to Anne Krueger.

Rent seeking is distinguished from corruption in that rent seeking is legal and corruption is not. Both are searches for privilege and personal gain through the political process.
Definition of Rent Seeking

Okay for individuals to do it for higher wages, health care subsidies etc--not okay for a business to do--the logic of Lonepeopleworkersparty.
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Old 02-05-2014, 07:54 AM   #179
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