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Old 10-09-2013, 09:55 AM  
Buehler445 Buehler445 is offline
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2013 Farm Bill

I heard a snippet on the radio yesterday about the farm bill. I've been on the combine solid for several days and it's a PIA to sift through a bunch of articles on my phone. Would anybody be willing to give a summation of where this nonsense is?

TIA
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Old 01-29-2014, 11:28 PM   #61
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I'll admit, I have no idea WTF the dairy stuff is. I don't know how they're going to calculate margin insurance (I wish I could guarantee a margin on a corn acre...), but in the past nobody has balked about money spent on milk.

The livestock disaster program is important. Them passing a different bill every disaster is stupid (and it's not like they were making a decision as to whether to make the bill, just what goes in it). The livestock guys definitely need it, especially the cattle guys given how expensive the replacement costs have gotten given the recent drought that led to herd reduction.
Of course the details are blurry right now, but I agree. They need to leave these two areas alone to allow them to stabilize. Another round or two of drought in the right areas and it could get ugly. The dairy industry seems to be one week away from a mess during the good times, and I'm not sure anyone knows how to support it in a way that will help.

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The one thing I haven't heard about is the peanuts, cotton, and sugar programs are structured. They're fairly small acreages, but their reps fight tooth and nail for them, and I think they get some significant government dollars. I know there is significant infighting between the corn states and the peanuts/cotton states as well as sugar states. But all those crops manage to stay out of the headlines, so nobody gives a shit. I need to find the particulars on all this shit.
I don't know much about cotton and peanuts other than some of the direct payments are going to continue happening for a year or two due to some other existing program?? I don't understand them at all as I have never been around the operations. The sugar side has issues that seem so messed up I can't believe I have it straight. Sure it's small acres, but it's ****ed up and they raked in serious profits a few years in a row and had their hands out the next year because production was WAY above the levels current plants could handle. It was not the tax payers fault they increased acres to a level that couldn't be run through the system.

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It's frustrating as a producer. I really don't mind giving up government dollars. We're in a ****ing budget crisis. But grain farmers get significant cuts and they cut SNAP a massive 1% /sarcasm. Goddamn it, cut me, but cut everyone else too.
I'm with you, this cut wasn't big enough considering what the production side gave up. I have no problem accepting the risk my operation operates under. Then again, I also accept the fact I'm responsible for feeding any kids I bring into this world.
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Old 01-30-2014, 12:09 AM   #62
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Where are you?

I don't see any of that happening here. There is maybe 300 acres of questionable land broke out that I know of in the last 5 years in my county. I'm not saying it's not happening, just not around me.

The fraud thing is important. I keep hearing shit about it but I can't make the math work for me on my farm. Mother Nature demolishes my aph bad enough. I don't need to hurt it any more. Plus we're a lot of sharecrop here and you just don't **** landlords. You just don't do it.

FWIW, there are random audits. Or there used to be anyway. Dad got one when I was in high school. Maybe they've tied up all the auditors with payment threshold audits but they used to do a few.
It's scattered through a pretty wide spread area north of US36. Basically happens in small pockets that run from Western North Missouri where the clay hills begin east of the Missouri river bottoms all the way to the north eastern corner of Missouri. Many of the farms were farmed until the shit hit the fan in the 80's and have been in grass or crp ever since.

As you can imagine the past spike in crop prices sent guys scrambling for acres. People broke out everything they could get their hands on. A lot of this ground is also in the middle of being flipped. The buyer is typically an out of the area investor who has never even seen the property and only cares about getting to cash the rent check on time. Share crop guys are honest for the most part here. You have to be or you'll be replaced by someone who is willing to do it right. It's the "rent and run" guys doing most the paper farming. I'm so tired of hearing "it's an insurance deal", it's not even funny. Many of these guys are hung out on outrageous 3-4 year deals that will no longer pencil, so change was probably coming with or without changes to the insurance system.

There were a bunch of audits done the past two years. Most were threshold limit audits with the past two years droughts, but plenty of fields had suit and tie types in them counting populations, checking weed pressure, and estimating yields during surprise visits throughout the summer and fall. This was NEVER the case before the past few years so perhaps they are catching on. I question how serious they were though because the end of the year inspection and bushel confirmation we got the past two years was so rushed he basically took our word for it. He obviously had much bigger fish to fry though and wanted in and out of our place as fast as he could so he could get on to the next guy.
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Old 01-30-2014, 09:13 AM   #63
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Old 01-30-2014, 10:16 AM   #64
Buehler445 Buehler445 is offline
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Originally Posted by ghak99 View Post
It's scattered through a pretty wide spread area north of US36. Basically happens in small pockets that run from Western North Missouri where the clay hills begin east of the Missouri river bottoms all the way to the north eastern corner of Missouri. Many of the farms were farmed until the shit hit the fan in the 80's and have been in grass or crp ever since.

As you can imagine the past spike in crop prices sent guys scrambling for acres. People broke out everything they could get their hands on. A lot of this ground is also in the middle of being flipped. The buyer is typically an out of the area investor who has never even seen the property and only cares about getting to cash the rent check on time. Share crop guys are honest for the most part here. You have to be or you'll be replaced by someone who is willing to do it right. It's the "rent and run" guys doing most the paper farming. I'm so tired of hearing "it's an insurance deal", it's not even funny. Many of these guys are hung out on outrageous 3-4 year deals that will no longer pencil, so change was probably coming with or without changes to the insurance system.

There were a bunch of audits done the past two years. Most were threshold limit audits with the past two years droughts, but plenty of fields had suit and tie types in them counting populations, checking weed pressure, and estimating yields during surprise visits throughout the summer and fall. This was NEVER the case before the past few years so perhaps they are catching on. I question how serious they were though because the end of the year inspection and bushel confirmation we got the past two years was so rushed he basically took our word for it. He obviously had much bigger fish to fry though and wanted in and out of our place as fast as he could so he could get on to the next guy.
I see. The rent and run types stay out of the Great American Desert.

So you never said, what would you have liked to see get cut out of the farm portion of the bill?
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Old 01-30-2014, 10:23 AM
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Old 01-30-2014, 07:47 PM   #65
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I see. The rent and run types stay out of the Great American Desert.

So you never said, what would you have liked to see get cut out of the farm portion of the bill?
There are several FSA programs I'd like to see hacked. Just an example... There is no reason guys in Iowa should be collecting $55/acre to plant a cover crop. I believe this number can get bigger if you jump through two more hoops. Are these mere drops in bucket, probably but a drop here and a drop there is how we got in this mess. Government restrictions on erosion and nutrient control are coming whether we want them or not and it's not the tax payers responsibility to pay me to keep my soil and fertilizer on my ground. For numerous reasons I planted a couple hundred acres of cover crops this fall, it never crossed my mind to ask my neighbor to help me pay for them. Perhaps this program was hacked, I can't even figure it out yet.

I can't find a new solid number, but what is the average percentage of the insurance premium being subsidized? Is it going to be over 60%? If so, I'm willing to do some work there too. For every one percent of my premiums they take away I'd like to see 2% knocked off the food program side. Lets compromise and agree to keep WIC away from the slashing.

Lowering the subsidy would cause the insurance companies to crack down on fraud themselves. Right now they're just riding along penciling the guaranteed money into their budget. Free money makes for lazy people, take away the free money and they'll get better at tightening their belt and the first place they'll look is to the guy they know is ****ing the system. The guys farming sand flats in Texas are the first ones to jump my ass with the "I need it to survive" line. Well, if you need the government to pay for over half of the system that allows you to keep plugging along you're doing something seriously wrong and probably shouldn't be eligible for insurance in the first place, let alone public funded insurance.

If seriously subsidized insurance is already considered a must have, what is going to happen when something serious like South American getting their transportation to port system figured out or when they shut the aquifer off?
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Old 01-30-2014, 08:07 PM   #66
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Old 01-30-2014, 08:25 PM   #67
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There are several FSA programs I'd like to see hacked. Just an example... There is no reason guys in Iowa should be collecting $55/acre to plant a cover crop. I believe this number can get bigger if you jump through two more hoops. Are these mere drops in bucket, probably but a drop here and a drop there is how we got in this mess. Government restrictions on erosion and nutrient control are coming whether we want them or not and it's not the tax payers responsibility to pay me to keep my soil and fertilizer on my ground. For numerous reasons I planted a couple hundred acres of cover crops this fall, it never crossed my mind to ask my neighbor to help me pay for them. Perhaps this program was hacked, I can't even figure it out yet.

I can't find a new solid number, but what is the average percentage of the insurance premium being subsidized? Is it going to be over 60%? If so, I'm willing to do some work there too. For every one percent of my premiums they take away I'd like to see 2% knocked off the food program side. Lets compromise and agree to keep WIC away from the slashing.

Lowering the subsidy would cause the insurance companies to crack down on fraud themselves. Right now they're just riding along penciling the guaranteed money into their budget. Free money makes for lazy people, take away the free money and they'll get better at tightening their belt and the first place they'll look is to the guy they know is ****ing the system. The guys farming sand flats in Texas are the first ones to jump my ass with the "I need it to survive" line. Well, if you need the government to pay for over half of the system that allows you to keep plugging along you're doing something seriously wrong and probably shouldn't be eligible for insurance in the first place, let alone public funded insurance.

If seriously subsidized insurance is already considered a must have, what is going to happen when something serious like South American getting their transportation to port system figured out or when they shut the aquifer off?
Most of the cover crop stuff is in the NRCS. I said above if they think they need to chop, chop conservation. But it has to be far far more than 1%.

The premium subsidy for MPCI varies with coverage levels. 70% coverage is the max, and I think it is just over half. I think 50% coverage and 85% are something like 30% subsidized. Not sure on that.

Good luck on finding audits. Audits are paid for by premiums. RMA demolished over the last 3 years.

What does SA or irrigation have to do with insurance?

To me what needs to happen with food stamps is they need to limit it to approved UPCs after they establish financial need. That would require only decent foods could be purchased with food stamps. People could still go buy drugs/alcohol/nonsense with their McDonalds wage, but at least they're not doing it with government money.
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Old 02-04-2014, 03:13 PM   #68
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Senate passed it. I'll post a link when I get home.
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Old 02-05-2014, 06:29 AM   #69
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I have not looked at how the specifics impact my small family corn and soybean business. I manage it but a real farmer works it and I trust his judgment. He has not yet seen any direct impacts on how we have been operating. However, I fundamentally oppose the concept of an outdated Soviet style 5 year centralized plan and petitioned my senators and representative to vote no on principle and bad policy. Did'nt matter as it will become law.

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Old 02-05-2014, 08:21 AM   #70
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Buehler....ghak99...

Read this windy bullshit...then tell me...what is this? What on earth will these be/do/help?

Wonderful announcement from Obama...

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/06/us...hubs.html?_r=2
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Old 02-05-2014, 08:40 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Buehler....ghak99...

Read this windy bullshit...then tell me...what is this? What on earth will these be/do/help?

Wonderful announcement from Obama...

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/06/us...hubs.html?_r=2
No friggin clue.

Probably just infrastructure for EPA to get more involved in ag.
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Old 02-05-2014, 08:44 AM   #72
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No friggin clue.

Probably just infrastructure for EPA to get more involved in ag.
Maybe they will have like a expert who can tell us when its wet, dry, windy. You know Climate stuff farmers and ranchers can't get and don't understand without help.
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Old 02-05-2014, 08:47 AM   #73
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Maybe they will have like a expert who can tell us when its wet hot, dry, windy. You know Climate stuff farmers and ranchers can't get and don't understand without help.
Fixed for my region
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Old 02-05-2014, 08:52 AM   #74
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Fixed for my region

See. Thats why they have so many!
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Old 02-05-2014, 09:38 AM   #75
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Buehler....ghak99...

Read this windy bullshit...then tell me...what is this? What on earth will these be/do/help?

Wonderful announcement from Obama...

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/06/us...hubs.html?_r=2
A waste of money.

I have no clue, but anything that gets strangely compared to the EPA that often in what can only be described as a vague puff piece should cause concern. I'm guessing they'll eventually end up one in the same.

If the next article talked about stopping the farmer from dumping fertilizer in our rivers in the same way they discuss the coal plants pumping it into our skies... I wouldn't be surprised. The regulations are coming, but this isn't how I expected them to eventually get to them.
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