Home Mail MemberMap Chat (0) Wallpapers
Go Back   ChiefsPlanet > The Lounge > D.C.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-03-2014, 06:20 PM  
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
Bless FSU!
 
BucEyedPea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: None of your business
Casino cash: $23646
Swedes Choosing Private Insurance over Socialize Medicine

While we Americans are getting coerced into utopian socialized medicine, with all the same problems coming as the Swedes found out. Swedes are opting out of their socialized medicine because they are fed up with it.

Per The Local's Swedish edition:
One in ten Swedes now has private health insurance, often through their employers, with some recipients stating it makes business sense to be seen quickly rather than languish in national health care queues.

More than half a million Swedes now have private health insurance, showed a new review from industry organization Swedish Insurance (Svensk Försäkring). In eight out of ten cases, the person's employer had offered them the private insurance deal.
The trend is growing and expected to continue growing despite the fact that Swedes already pay for their state-run version.

Native Swede Bernpainter wrote for the Mises Institute:
The Truth about SwedenCare:

“It was recently revealed in one of the major newspapers that doctors were told to prioritize patients based on their value as future taxpayers,” he wrote. “Old people naturally have a low future-taxpayer-value, so they naturally became low priority in the machine and less likely to receive proper treatment.”

http://mises.org/daily/6476/
The above is coming soon to America as is the following:

Bernpainter also points out how SwedenCare started in the same report. It was originally for the poor, but eventually wiped out private options with doctors either leaving the profession or becoming unemployed. Before the utopian project started Sweden had some of the lowest taxes in the world and was tops in standard of living. Later it became the second highest in taxes with "periods of rampant inflation, and a steadily deteriorating economy." [It has begun to liberalize to more market based to its credit to ameliorate their problems.]

Nice touch!
'Medical mistakes kill 3,000 Swedes a year'

... the case of ambulance drivers who took a lunch break instead of responding to a call...

The patient, who was having trouble breathing, died.

Since these deaths are occurring within a state-run healthcare system, “individual cases rarely lead to any widespread debate about patient safety because it takes so long for the National Board of Health and Welfare ... to process the cases.”

http://www.thelocal.se/20110418/33260

Plus in Sweden their politicians have private health care that is paid for by taxpayers.” Just as in America, Congress exempts itself from ObamaCare.
Posts: 59,889
BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2014, 05:29 PM   #16
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
Bless FSU!
 
BucEyedPea's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: None of your business
Casino cash: $23646
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowener View Post
Seems pretty low compared to the 440,000 (2007) deaths in the USA caused by medical mistakes. 210,000 is the low end of the estimate, which is still ****ing high.
I indicated a specific medical mistake due to being a lazy worker in a socialist system. And the report says those reported as just the "tip of the iceberg."

Also from one of the links:

Quote:
There is nothing economically mysterious about health care — it is just another service. Like any other it can be plentifully provided on a free market at affordable prices and constantly improving quality. But like everything else, it breaks down when the central planners get their hands on it, which they now have. To claim that the problems are due to a “market failure” in health care is like saying that there was a market failure in Soviet bread production.
We've gone down the central planning route as well. Just not as much but more and more.

Quote:
In Sweden that comes down to 1 death for every 3200+ citizens. The US is 1 death for every 1400+ citizens (at the low end of the estimation). A majority of medical mistakes come down to a stupid skipped step or forgotten sponge that leads to infection. Cranking those patients through as fast as possible ld definitely increase profits for a hospital.
No they're being squeezed to pass costs along.

Now cover the report's mention of govt deciding who is worth life and who isn't based on how valuable they are as a taxpayer. Such a paradise.
__________________
“The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the legislature.” ~ James Madison, Father of the Constitution

“We do not believe in aggressive or preventive war. Such war is the weapon of dictators, not of free democratic countries like the United States.”~ Truman, Sept 1, 1950

Last edited by BucEyedPea; 02-04-2014 at 05:44 PM..
Posts: 59,889
BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2014, 05:33 PM   #17
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
Bless FSU!
 
BucEyedPea's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: None of your business
Casino cash: $23646
Plus the Swedes pay 70% tax for their system. And..."important to plan any major health problems you intend to have outside of June, July, and August, because during the summer months, hospitals are virtually shut down for vacation. " ( same link)
__________________
“The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the legislature.” ~ James Madison, Father of the Constitution

“We do not believe in aggressive or preventive war. Such war is the weapon of dictators, not of free democratic countries like the United States.”~ Truman, Sept 1, 1950
Posts: 59,889
BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2014, 05:39 PM   #18
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
Bless FSU!
 
BucEyedPea's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: None of your business
Casino cash: $23646
bowener,
I didn't put that up or recommend Sweden adopt a system we once had. I don't do that to other countries. I put it up to show how we've gradually gone in their direction whereby we can expect the more of the same problems--as well as high taxes and less robust economy.
__________________
“The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the legislature.” ~ James Madison, Father of the Constitution

“We do not believe in aggressive or preventive war. Such war is the weapon of dictators, not of free democratic countries like the United States.”~ Truman, Sept 1, 1950
Posts: 59,889
BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2014, 05:47 PM   #19
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
Bless FSU!
 
BucEyedPea's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: None of your business
Casino cash: $23646
In Health at a Glance 2011, researchers investigated wait times across 11 countries using data from a 2010 Commonwealth Fund Survey. They found more patients waiting longer for specialist appointments and elective surgery in Canada, Sweden and Norway.





http://expathealth.org/healthcare-ne...me-statistics/
__________________
“The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the legislature.” ~ James Madison, Father of the Constitution

“We do not believe in aggressive or preventive war. Such war is the weapon of dictators, not of free democratic countries like the United States.”~ Truman, Sept 1, 1950
Posts: 59,889
BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2014, 06:17 PM   #20
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is online now
Debunking your bullshit
 
cosmo20002's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: KC area
Casino cash: $22628
Quote:
Originally Posted by RNR View Post
The impact of employer provided coverage cannot be measured. Lets see where we are when the entire law is enforced. Forget the legality of that as it is beside the point. There is completely different set of rules inplay here and to deny it is disingenuous~
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. I thought the issue here was members of Congress. I'm not sure what they are provided as part of their employment as congressmen. But as far as I know, the basics apply to them--they have to have insurance. If they don't have it for some reason, they need to get it, and the exchanges would be an option. I'm not trying to pull something over on you here--this is my understanding and I don't know of a reason to describe congressmen as being exempt.
__________________
Posts: 20,548
cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2014, 06:37 PM   #21
RedNeckRaider RedNeckRaider is offline
Got highway?
 
RedNeckRaider's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Close to the big pond~
Casino cash: $11249
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. I thought the issue here was members of Congress. I'm not sure what they are provided as part of their employment as congressmen. But as far as I know, the basics apply to them--they have to have insurance. If they don't have it for some reason, they need to get it, and the exchanges would be an option. I'm not trying to pull something over on you here--this is my understanding and I don't know of a reason to describe congressmen as being exempt.
Blow me you know exactly what I am talking about. They have theirs and we have ours. It is apples and oranges. They in no form or fashion are effected by this law. You are entirely too intelligent for me to by this gee whiz act~
__________________
It would indeed be a tragedy if the history of the human race proved to be nothing more than the story of an ape playing with a box of matches on a petrol dump.
David Ormsby Gore~
Posts: 24,696
RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2014, 06:41 PM   #22
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is online now
Debunking your bullshit
 
cosmo20002's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: KC area
Casino cash: $22628
Quote:
Originally Posted by RNR View Post
Blow me you know exactly what I am talking about. They have theirs and we have ours. It is apples and oranges. They in no form or fashion effected by this law. You are entirely too intelligent for me to by this gee whiz act~
I think we're talking past each other because I'm not doing what you think I'm doing. They may have a better plan than me. But I have insurance already and don't need to use an exchange. I don't think you would describe me as exempt from the law.
__________________
Posts: 20,548
cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2014, 06:52 PM   #23
RedNeckRaider RedNeckRaider is offline
Got highway?
 
RedNeckRaider's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Close to the big pond~
Casino cash: $11249
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
I think we're talking past each other because I'm not doing what you think I'm doing. They may have a better plan than me. But I have insurance already and don't need to use an exchange. I don't think you would describe me as exempt from the law.
Once again I have employer provided insurance also and we will see how that works out for us when it is decided that the law applies to companies. My coverage is not guaranteed and subsidized by the tax payers nor is my choice of doctors protected. Of course you know all of this and are desperately trying to hold on to your "got you" line against the right wingers. This gee whiz they have to have insurance just like us line is nonsense. You know as well as I do~
__________________
It would indeed be a tragedy if the history of the human race proved to be nothing more than the story of an ape playing with a box of matches on a petrol dump.
David Ormsby Gore~
Posts: 24,696
RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2014, 09:23 PM   #24
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is online now
Debunking your bullshit
 
cosmo20002's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: KC area
Casino cash: $22628
Quote:
Originally Posted by RNR View Post
Once again I have employer provided insurance also and we will see how that works out for us when it is decided that the law applies to companies. My coverage is not guaranteed and subsidized by the tax payers nor is my choice of doctors protected. Of course you know all of this and are desperately trying to hold on to your "got you" line against the right wingers. This gee whiz they have to have insurance just like us line is nonsense. You know as well as I do~
Then people shouldn't use the term "exempt" when referring to Congress.

What do you think might happen when this kicks in for larger companies? I wouldn't think much. Your company offered you an insurance plan prior to ACA. They didn't have to do so. If they didn't there was no penalty to them.

Under ACA, there is a penalty to large companies for not offering a plan. If they offered a plan when they didn't have to, why would they not offer one when they do have to?
__________________
Posts: 20,548
cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2014, 04:07 AM   #25
RedNeckRaider RedNeckRaider is offline
Got highway?
 
RedNeckRaider's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Close to the big pond~
Casino cash: $11249
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Then people shouldn't use the term "exempt" when referring to Congress.

What do you think might happen when this kicks in for larger companies? I wouldn't think much. Your company offered you an insurance plan prior to ACA. They didn't have to do so. If they didn't there was no penalty to them.

Under ACA, there is a penalty to large companies for not offering a plan. If they offered a plan when they didn't have to, why would they not offer one when they do have to?
I honestly don't know what will happen~
__________________
It would indeed be a tragedy if the history of the human race proved to be nothing more than the story of an ape playing with a box of matches on a petrol dump.
David Ormsby Gore~
Posts: 24,696
RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2014, 07:47 AM   #26
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
Bless FSU!
 
BucEyedPea's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: None of your business
Casino cash: $23646
Now that I've had to the time to examine your links more

Quote:
Originally Posted by bowener View Post
Seems pretty low compared to the 440,000 (2007) deaths in the USA caused by medical mistakes. 210,000 is the low end of the estimate, which is still ****ing high.

In Sweden that comes down to 1 death for every 3200+ citizens. The US is 1 death for every 1400+ citizens (at the low end of the estimation). A majority of medical mistakes come down to a stupid skipped step or forgotten sponge that leads to infection. Cranking those patients through as fast as possible would definitely increase profits for a hospital.

Edit: Sweden's wait times for specialists in 2010 was slightly lower than in the US.

The wait for elective surgery in Sweden is the same as the US in 2010.

The US has the worst waiting times among major EU countries and Canada.

So the US form of privatized health care is certainly something that countries should strive for.
Your three links do NOT show what you posted. You might learn to read a graph. My graph for elective surgery is the same as your link's and it shows the opposite. Same for specialists. Then your last link does NOT include Sweden--at all.

Your last link is about "continuity of care" saying the US had "relatively" longer waits for "doctor appointments" but NOT for specialists, elective surgery or ER. What is omitted from the doctor visit waits is by how much? A few days? Has to be something like that if they use the word "relatively." But it does talk about not being able to see a doctor here on nights, weekends and holidays. Plus the discrepancy is not much when you look at the numbers. In fact the numbers on the other 4 countries, which do NOT include Sweden, are NOT enough to scream "crisis."

Don't forget we pay for the defense of Europe, like Germany, which is cited as having the best numbers.

When I get to the medical mistakes I'll post it. I've already said they use more lo-tech in Europe than us.
__________________
“The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the legislature.” ~ James Madison, Father of the Constitution

“We do not believe in aggressive or preventive war. Such war is the weapon of dictators, not of free democratic countries like the United States.”~ Truman, Sept 1, 1950

Last edited by BucEyedPea; 02-05-2014 at 02:40 PM..
Posts: 59,889
BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2014, 11:39 AM   #27
alpha_omega alpha_omega is offline
MVP
 
alpha_omega's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Liberty
Casino cash: $10158
I have nothing of substance to add to this thread, but when i read the title it reminded me of and old Pink Floyd song that referenced the "Swedes". It made me chuckle, so i thought i would post that part of the song here....

**** all that we've got to get on with these
got to compete with the wily japanese
no need to worry about the vietnamese
got to bring the russian bear to his knees
well, maybe not the russian bear
maybe the swedes
we showed argentina
now let's go and show these
make us feel tough
and won't maggie be pleased
nah nah nah nah nah nah!
Posts: 7,032
alpha_omega wants to die in a aids tree fire.alpha_omega wants to die in a aids tree fire.alpha_omega wants to die in a aids tree fire.alpha_omega wants to die in a aids tree fire.alpha_omega wants to die in a aids tree fire.alpha_omega wants to die in a aids tree fire.alpha_omega wants to die in a aids tree fire.alpha_omega wants to die in a aids tree fire.alpha_omega wants to die in a aids tree fire.alpha_omega wants to die in a aids tree fire.alpha_omega wants to die in a aids tree fire.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:30 PM.


This is a test for a client's site.
A new website that shows member-created construction site listings that need fill or have excess fill. Dirt Monkey @ https://DirtMonkey.net
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.