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Old 02-19-2014, 09:14 PM  
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Anyone Following The Protests In The Ukraine?

I've been seeing some impressive pics of protests in Kiev.


Protests against new anti-democratic laws in Ukraine are increasing in intensity, with four citizens reported dead. As you can see in these extraordinary images by Ilya Varlamov, the demonstrators are using rockets made with fireworks. They look like scenes from some science-fiction movie about urban warfare.

The latest reports talk about at least four people killed and hundreds injured by the police. After the massive protests against the government's rejection against the European Union in favor of an alliance with the former Russian oppressors, Kiev officials announced new repressive laws limiting the people's right to protest. These urban battles are the people's reaction to those laws.

Ukraine was a former Soviet Republic, created after a civil war between pro-communist and the Ukrainian People's Republic armies at the beginning of the 20th century, right after the fall of the Russian Empire. The communists won, and the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic was established. In theory, it was an independent state, but in fact—like all republics in the USSR and satellite countries—it was under a tight control by the Kremlin.

http://sploid.gizmodo.com/spectacula...rai-1507432049

Pics to follow...
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Old 02-19-2014, 09:51 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by jjjayb View Post
And it kills me that some here would so easily give up our right to bear arms. This is the reason for that right. So we aren't fighting against an authoritarian government with rockets made from fireworks. Keep thinking this could never happen here.
I'm not for giving up your guns, but when the authoritarian govt comes for you, good luck. I don't know what you have, but it will likely delay the inevitable for about 5 minutes.
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Old 02-19-2014, 09:56 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
I'm not for giving up your guns, but when the authoritarian govt comes for you, good luck. I don't know what you have, but it will likely delay the inevitable for about 5 minutes.
This is true, if the majority of the American Military sides with detaining its own citizens for whatever reason, even the most farflung cave will be found within a year or two at the most.

In the ugliest of scenarios its a pointless proposition, average joe is going down.
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Old 02-19-2014, 10:11 PM   #18
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Interesting what is going on over there. We need to keep clear of it.
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Old 02-19-2014, 10:16 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by scott free View Post
This is true, if the majority of the American Military sides with detaining its own citizens for whatever reason, even the most farflung cave will be found within a year or two at the most.

In the ugliest of scenarios its a pointless proposition, average joe is going down.
I doubt the military would be unified against civilians and the constitution, but it does sound like the martial law scenario is being geared up for. Civilians here have an enormous amount of weaponry and veterans would be great help for a rebellion. Laser guided bombs and drones are tough to beat, but Afghanistan has shown that guerrilla warfare is always a formidable challenge. The real question is "How many of these soft bellied modern Americans would even fight to get their freedom back". Offer them something for free and they'll sign up for anything. As long as the drug and entertainment supply doesn't dry up, most Americans will just let it happen.
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Old 02-19-2014, 10:17 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ActiveShooter View Post
I doubt the military would be unified against civilians and the constitution, but it does sound like the martial law scenario is being geared up for. Civilians here have an enormous amount of weaponry and veterans would be great help for a rebellion. Laser guided bombs and drones are tough to beat, but Afghanistan has shown that guerrilla warfare is always a formidable challenge. The real question is "How many of these soft bellied modern Americans would even fight to get their freedom back". Offer them something for free and they'll sign up for anything. As long as the drug and entertainment supply doesn't dry up, most Americans will just let it happen.
No it doesn't. To kooks and nutjobs maybe. Not to sane people.
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Old 02-19-2014, 10:22 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by scott free View Post
Not following it as close as the "Russian and Orange" revolutions, its kind of becoming desensitizing, all of this constant unrest around the world.

But from all I gather its a classic Cold War scenario, a nation and its government torn between two massive pressures, the US tugs one way, Russia tugs the other, but with greater force due to proximity and historical ties.

Don't care if it sounds clichéd and old hat... China and Russia are STILL enemies of a free, modern world... America wants to exert influence on it, those nations want to RULE most of it.

Big difference... there will be no liberal utopia in this world, "giving up war and evil weapons" will never be an option, no matter how much rational sense it makes.

I would rather drastically reduce any number of things before cutting the military and even MORE importantly, our space presence as bad as its been gutted... controling space = maintaining world balance.
I am continually blown away by how much the world changes in just my lifetime alone. And yet sometimes it seems like the same old story playing out over and over again.
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Old 02-19-2014, 10:28 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ActiveShooter View Post
I doubt the military would be unified against civilians and the constitution, but it does sound like the martial law scenario is being geared up for. Civilians here have an enormous amount of weaponry and veterans would be great help for a rebellion. Laser guided bombs and drones are tough to beat, but Afghanistan has shown that guerrilla warfare is always a formidable challenge. The real question is "How many of these soft bellied modern Americans would even fight to get their freedom back". Offer them something for free and they'll sign up for anything. As long as the drug and entertainment supply doesn't dry up, most Americans will just let it happen.
Sadly many soft bellied Americans won't fight for their freedom, because they don't realize they are losing it day by day. By the time they realize its gone, it will be too late
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Old 02-19-2014, 10:32 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
No it doesn't. To kooks and nutjobs maybe. Not to sane people.
Gonna have to disagree here, Cosmo. The Boston Bombing was an unfortunate sign that indeed we are closer to a para-military style police force than we would care to admit. 2 guys, 2 guys with a home made bomb caused a good deal of Boston to shut down while cops in armored vehicles and outfitted like the military went up and down the streets pulling people out of their houses without any warrants. Most of the country cheered the effort, sadly.

There have been worse scenarios than the Boston bombing and nothing like what we saw with the Cops in Boston ever happened before. I mean this is a scary ordeal. People were pulled out of their homes at gun point without a warrant. There is no justification for that. We are a free society and warrants and laws supporting warrants have to be followed or we become the USSR.
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Old 02-19-2014, 10:36 PM   #24
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Obama condemns violence in Ukraine, warns of consequences

Quote:
President Obama warned all sides in the deadly Ukrainian conflict Wednesday that “there will be consequences if people step over the line,” but said he holds the government “primarily responsible” for showing restraint in dealing with the opposition.


“I want to be very clear as we work through these next several days in Ukraine that we’re going to be watching closely, and we expect the Ukrainian government to show restraint, to not resort to violence in dealing with peaceful protesters,” Obama said. “We’ve also said we expect peaceful protesters to remain peaceful, and we’ll be monitoring very closely the situation, recognizing that with our European partners and the international community there will be consequences if people step over the line.”
http://www.latimes.com/world/worldno...#ixzz2tpgm8zrL


'...there will be consequences if people step over the line,' says President Barack Obama.

Hahahahahahaha hahahahaha hahahaha hahahahahahaha

President Vladimir Putin will whack him across the nose with a rolled up newspaper.

Moreover, somewhere in Syria President Bashar al-Assad is giggling.
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Old 02-19-2014, 10:38 PM   #25
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Nope, we aren't heading for a Police state...

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Old 02-19-2014, 10:40 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
Hi there, this is late-breaking news from 1991 - Ukraine is no longer part of Russia.
And just what are these protesters in the street for? Could it be an outward sign that the current ruling regime turned away from Europe and instead turned to everyone's favorite former KGB agent?
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Old 02-19-2014, 10:48 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
Gonna have to disagree here, Cosmo. The Boston Bombing was an unfortunate sign that indeed we are closer to a para-military style police force than we would care to admit. 2 guys, 2 guys with a home made bomb caused a good deal of Boston to shut down while cops in armored vehicles and outfitted like the military went up and down the streets pulling people out of their houses without any warrants. Most of the country cheered the effort, sadly.

There have been worse scenarios than the Boston bombing and nothing like what we saw with the Cops in Boston ever happened before. I mean this is a scary ordeal. People were pulled out of their homes at gun point without a warrant. There is no justification for that. We are a free society and warrants and laws supporting warrants have to be followed or we become the USSR.

It is interesting to consider will someone finally say enough. It could get very ugly very fast. A lot of people forget how tense things got in the late 60s. And today communication is far more rapid. There must be real honest fear among Law enforcement in the cities. We are far more divided today. In the. 60s it was people against war. Today we have people against people. People who have no faith in government. Massive unemployment especially in cities. Like it or not Cosmo can dismiss it if he wants but one can make a case we are on a powderkeg.

Federal government has no respect. People distrust all levels. Give the heat of summer, a political campaign, somebody makes a wrong move and this thing could go off like a Roman Candle

Do I think it will. No. But to deny we are way to close to the edge is pure folly
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Old 02-19-2014, 10:49 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by ActiveShooter View Post
I doubt the military would be unified against civilians and the constitution, but it does sound like the martial law scenario is being geared up for. Civilians here have an enormous amount of weaponry and veterans would be great help for a rebellion. Laser guided bombs and drones are tough to beat, but Afghanistan has shown that guerrilla warfare is always a formidable challenge. The real question is "How many of these soft bellied modern Americans would even fight to get their freedom back". Offer them something for free and they'll sign up for anything. As long as the drug and entertainment supply doesn't dry up, most Americans will just let it happen.
In the ultimate ugly scenario, yeah, we can hope that the best elements of our armed forces disobey orders and side with popular opinion ala Yeltsin... but without that the "average American militia" would be wiped out so fast it isn't funny... no chance, none at all, this isn't Afghanistan.

The powers that be have this continent so locked in with radar, satellites, manned flights and drones that any evasion by a mass of populace would be impossible to slip by... I'm a prepper, but if the US comes for anyone with real assets, ****ing forget it.
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Old 02-19-2014, 10:56 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott free View Post
In the ultimate ugly scenario, yeah, we can hope that the best elements of our armed forces disobey orders and side with popular opinion ala Yeltsin... but without that the "average American militia" would be wiped out so fast it isn't funny... no chance, none at all, this isn't Afghanistan.

The powers that be have this continent so locked in with radar, satellites, manned flights and drones that any evasion by a mass of populace would be impossible to slip by... I'm a prepper, but if the US comes for anyone with real assets, ****ing forget it.
I can imagine King George saying very much the same thing. Superior training, better armed, skilled fighting units well practiced with superb leadership vs bumpkins dispersed untrained in the art of warfare. Slam dunk. The fight may be one sided. But it would be ugly brutal and no winner would emerge. Its lose lose. The cities would go up in flames.
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:05 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
I can imagine King George saying very much the same thing. Superior training, better armed, skilled fighting units well practiced with superb leadership vs bumpkins dispersed untrained in the art of warfare. Slam dunk. The fight may be one sided. But it would be ugly brutal and no winner would emerge. Its lose lose. The cities would go up in flames.
I think there is a huge chunk of the population that would go along with, or at least pretend to go along with, a military takeover in our country. People in high-pop areas are already desensitized and those are the people that will go along to get along. The country couldn't be taken though unless the military is willing to kill a shit ton of people and that's doubtful still. Too many well armed/well organized gangs in the urban areas, too many well armed/well organized militias in the rural areas.
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