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Old 02-19-2014, 09:14 PM  
listopencil listopencil is offline
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Anyone Following The Protests In The Ukraine?

I've been seeing some impressive pics of protests in Kiev.


Protests against new anti-democratic laws in Ukraine are increasing in intensity, with four citizens reported dead. As you can see in these extraordinary images by Ilya Varlamov, the demonstrators are using rockets made with fireworks. They look like scenes from some science-fiction movie about urban warfare.

The latest reports talk about at least four people killed and hundreds injured by the police. After the massive protests against the government's rejection against the European Union in favor of an alliance with the former Russian oppressors, Kiev officials announced new repressive laws limiting the people's right to protest. These urban battles are the people's reaction to those laws.

Ukraine was a former Soviet Republic, created after a civil war between pro-communist and the Ukrainian People's Republic armies at the beginning of the 20th century, right after the fall of the Russian Empire. The communists won, and the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic was established. In theory, it was an independent state, but in fact—like all republics in the USSR and satellite countries—it was under a tight control by the Kremlin.

http://sploid.gizmodo.com/spectacula...rai-1507432049

Pics to follow...
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:07 PM   #31
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I'm sure the original revolutionaries of our country felt the same way when they stood toe to toe with the British army. I don't believe it's to that point yet, but I do think there will come a time when taking a stand is going to carry certain consequences with it. Could the military wipe a group of people out on a whim? Yes. Will they? Who knows? Will there be some on the oppressive side who sympathize with poor people just wanting to live their lives freely, absolutely. In the end, there will be defenders of freedom on both sides...the question is, at what cost will they come to defend it? How much will be lost by that time, and will there be anything left to salvage in the end?
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:18 PM   #32
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I can imagine King George saying very much the same thing. Superior training, better armed, skilled fighting units well practiced with superb leadership vs bumpkins dispersed untrained in the art of warfare. Slam dunk. The fight may be one sided. But it would be ugly brutal and no winner would emerge. Its lose lose. The cities would go up in flames.
I know, its hard to imagine the American populace being overwhelmed, but just think about it... all of these soft people... "we need a hospital, we need lights, we're hungry, we need water and food for our children etc."

The real enemy during a scenario like that would often be you're own people, dragging you down with humanity, that's not something an Afghan worries about, the people in the valley over can die for all they care... not to question the basic character of Americans, but I definitely feel that anything close to what the Afghans have faced would make 80% of this country wilt like fresh leaves in a hot sun.

Americans WILL fight, but they aren't used to and can imagine fighting on their OWN ground... and that's just being kind for a foreign invasion thing, if the US decides to take control you better be be Bwana 80 miles out in the middle of nowhere to even last a year or so.
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:20 PM   #33
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I think there is a huge chunk of the population that would go along with, or at least pretend to go along with, a military takeover in our country. People in high-pop areas are already desensitized and those are the people that will go along to get along. The country couldn't be taken though unless the military is willing to kill a shit ton of people and that's doubtful still. Too many well armed/well organized gangs in the urban areas, too many well armed/well organized militias in the rural areas.
Whatever happens the ignition point will be in the big cities. It would take very little imo to set off Chicago or Detroit or Atlanta or LA. And when one goes a bunch will go. You cant have that many people with nothing to do but get pissed at each other and the man armed to the teeth fighting over turf and drugs and not see it coming. They can polish this turd all day but its clear that as long as they kill each other its hands off. When the wrong move gets made its fire time. Rodney king got an ass whipping on tv and it set it off.

Then the question will be who takes whos side and how far does it go. One moron killing a kid on campus in Ohio set it off. Still plenty of morons on both sides
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:23 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by scott free View Post
I know, its hard to imagine the American populace being overwhelmed, but just think about it... all of these soft people... "we need a hospital, we need lights, we're hungry, we need water and food for our children etc."

The real enemy during a scenario like that would often be you're own people, dragging you down with humanity, that's not something an Afghan worries about, the people in the valley over can die for all they care... not to question the basic character of Americans, but I definitely feel that anything close to what the Afghans have faced would make 80% of this country wilt like fresh leaves in a hot sun.

Americans WILL fight, but they aren't used to and can imagine fighting on their OWN ground... and that's just being kind for a foreign invasion thing, if the US decides to take control you better be be Bwana 80 miles out in the middle of nowhere to even last a year or so.
No doubt those who do nothing till it starts will be desperate and very dangerous. If it gets to that point it will be very nasty. I doubt it will. But consider the possibility and think through the options
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:27 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Whatever happens the ignition point will be in the big cities. It would take very little imo to set off Chicago or Detroit or Atlanta or LA. And when one goes a bunch will go. You cant have that many people with nothing to do but get pissed at each other and the man armed to the teeth fighting over turf and drugs and not see it coming. They can polish this turd all day but its clear that as long as they kill each other its hands off. When the wrong move gets made its fire time. Rodney king got an ass whipping on tv and it set it off.

Then the question will be who takes whos side and how far does it go. One moron killing a kid on campus in Ohio set it off. Still plenty of morons on both sides
Yeah, pretty much. The determining factors would be the rules for the use of force and how destructive the military would be allowed to be.
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:31 PM   #36
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Yeah, pretty much. The determining factors would be the rules for the use of force and how destructive the military would be allowed to be.
And what sets it off. A little blow up in Birmingham would be way different than something huge at a political center. A capitol or DC or NYC/Chicago. Get back Loretta. Only takes one crazy.
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:38 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
And what sets it off. A little blow up in Birmingham would be way different than something huge at a political center. A capitol or DC or NYC/Chicago. Get back Loretta. Only takes one crazy.
Detroit looks like it is edging closer and closer to a post apocalyptic dystopia already. How far can it be from martial law?
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Old 02-20-2014, 12:30 AM   #38
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Well the fur is certainly flying, that's for sure.

Ukranian armored car pwned:


possibly same as video above, from different angle:


Kviv live stream:
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Old 02-20-2014, 12:44 AM   #39
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Gonna have to disagree here, Cosmo. The Boston Bombing was an unfortunate sign that indeed we are closer to a para-military style police force than we would care to admit. 2 guys, 2 guys with a home made bomb caused a good deal of Boston to shut down while cops in armored vehicles and outfitted like the military went up and down the streets pulling people out of their houses without any warrants. Most of the country cheered the effort, sadly.

There have been worse scenarios than the Boston bombing and nothing like what we saw with the Cops in Boston ever happened before. I mean this is a scary ordeal. People were pulled out of their homes at gun point without a warrant. There is no justification for that. We are a free society and warrants and laws supporting warrants have to be followed or we become the USSR.
I think your whole description here is an exaggeration, particularly the part I bolded. That video you posted is ridiculous. Was that an Alex Jones production? The opening line is that the governor "ordered" a million people to stay home. That's not true. Boston's a big place, and you weren't arrested for leaving the house. These searches were done in a limited area, and the bomber was in fact found very close by.

Anyway, the accusation in the prior post was that martial law was on the way, with the implication of it being at the federal level, although I'm not sure what it would be in response to. Just for fun to oppress the citizenry for some reason? It's paranoid nonsense.
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Old 02-20-2014, 12:53 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
I can imagine King George saying very much the same thing. Superior training, better armed, skilled fighting units well practiced with superb leadership vs bumpkins dispersed untrained in the art of warfare. Slam dunk. The fight may be one sided. But it would be ugly brutal and no winner would emerge. Its lose lose. The cities would go up in flames.
Ridiculous comparison. What was the Brits' most powerful weapon compared to what the colonists had?

Now how about today? How many F-16s are in your fleet? What kind of stealth bomber are you using these days?
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Old 02-20-2014, 12:58 AM   #41
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I think your whole description here is an exaggeration, particularly the part I bolded. That video you posted is ridiculous. Was that an Alex Jones production? The opening line is that the governor "ordered" a million people to stay home. That's not true. Boston's a big place, and you weren't arrested for leaving the house. These searches were done in a limited area, and the bomber was in fact found very close by.

Anyway, the accusation in the prior post was that martial law was on the way, with the implication of it being at the federal level, although I'm not sure what it would be in response to. Just for fun to oppress the citizenry for some reason? It's paranoid nonsense.

Just relax! the government is your friend...How could you not know this? /Cosmo20002
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Old 02-20-2014, 01:17 AM   #42
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Don't care if it sounds clichéd and old hat... China and Russia are STILL enemies of a free, modern world... America wants to exert influence on it, those nations want to RULE most of it.
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Compete nonsense.
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Old 02-20-2014, 01:56 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Ridiculous comparison. What was the Brits' most powerful weapon compared to what the colonists had?

Now how about today? How many F-16s are in your fleet? What kind of stealth bomber are you using these days?
And how many American and coalition casualties came from Taliban or Iraqi MIGs?
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Old 02-20-2014, 02:24 AM   #44
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Compete nonsense.
So Russia is still battling tooth and nail behind the scenes for Ukraine for the fun of it?

China and Russia continue to block any meaningful measures against NK for giggles, same in Syria... China continues to claim areas of the southern sea that are right up against their neighbors doorsteps just for fun?

Wrong... their autocratic, my way or go to hell, we have the advantage view of the world around them needs checked, period.

Complete nonsense, your worldview + that av and handle, it makes no sense at all and destroys credibility before you even post your drivel.
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Old 02-20-2014, 02:27 AM   #45
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So Russia is still battling tooth and nail behind the scenes for Ukraine for the fun of it?

China and Russia continue to block any meaningful measures against NK for giggles, same in Syria... China continues to claim areas of the southern sea that are right up against their neighbors doorsteps just for fun?

Wrong... their autocratic, my way or go to hell, we have the advantage view of the world around them needs checked, period.
Give credit to China containing NK out of sheer necessity.. That regime falls and both China and SK will be overrun with millions of jobless, starving and uneducated refugees.
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