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Old 02-24-2014, 09:14 PM  
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The 15 Beliefs of the Tea Party

I keep hearing people on both sides bash the Tea Party and I have to admit I have never actually looked into exactly what the stance of the Tea Party is, so this is what I found. Amazingly it seems that a lot of people on both sides tend to agree with most of these beliefs. It's obvious why status quo politicians are afraid of the Tea Party but I have to question why we hear some on the voter end bashing them. I have listed the beliefs below and put a D, R or B (both) for where I think beliefs fall from an "isle" aspect:

1. Illegal aliens are here illegally. R
2. Pro-domestic employment is indispensable. D
3. A strong military is essential. R
4. Special interests must be eliminated. B
5. Gun ownership is sacred. R
6. Government must be downsized. B
7. The national budget must be balanced. B
8. Deficit spending must end. B
9. Bailout and stimulus plans are illegal. D
10. Reducing personal income taxes is a must. B
11. Reducing business income taxes is mandatory. R
12. Political offices must be available to average citizens. B
13. Intrusive government must be stopped. B
14. English as our core language is required. R
15. Traditional family values are encouraged. R

- See more at: http://www.teaparty.org/about-us/#sthash.fNHyEuQs.dpuf
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:16 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
You can start by addressing what I said in the post in which you appear to only have read one sentence.
You stated you wanted a "Constitutional" explanation. I'm not going to assume your stance. State it plainly and I'll address it.
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:21 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by HolyHandgernade View Post
You stated you wanted a "Constitutional" explanation. I'm not going to assume your stance. State it plainly and I'll address it.
My stance is as long as Congress does not make any laws establishing a religion and does not favor one religion over another then everything else is legal.
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:23 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
A rigid stance is what it takes, imo. Take a look at the democrats. They aren't kicking the Repubs' ass by being flexible.
I agree, but don't message it as a rigid stance. Soften the delivery while keeping the same goal. Takes me back to my original point. The ideas aren't bad, it is how they are delivered. Marketing my man marketing!
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:23 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
My stance is as long as Congress does not make any laws establishing a religion and does not favor one religion over another then everything else is legal.
OK, your mistake is the article "a" before religion. It doesn't exist. It isn't "shall make no law establishing 'a' religion". Its "shall make no law establishing religion".

Religion is used in a general and encompassing fashion, it is not singling out any religion in particular.
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:25 PM   #35
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I agree, but don't message it as a rigid stance. Soften the delivery while keeping the same goal. Takes me back to my original point. The ideas aren't bad, it is how they are delivered. Marketing my man marketing!
I'm just speculating but I would think that might come from it being more of a grass roots type movement as opposed to a well-oiled, political machine like the current parties running D.C.
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:27 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by HolyHandgernade View Post
OK, your mistake is the article "a" before religion. It doesn't exist. It isn't "shall make no law establishing 'a' religion". Its "shall make no law establishing religion".

Religion is used in a general and encompassing fashion, it is not singling out any religion in particular.
Okay, you win the wordsmithing contest but I think my point still prevails.
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:29 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
Okay, you win the wordsmithing contest but I think my point still prevails.
Uh, no it doesn't. Words mean things. I'll explain it in further detail if you like as long as we can both agree that the drafters of the religion clauses in the 1st amendment were chosen carefully, not haphazardly, and that because they have legal meaning, the use of the punctuation and grammar actually do matter. Can we agree on that?
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:30 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HolyHandgernade View Post
Uh, no it doesn't. Words mean things. I'll explain it in further detail if you like as long as we can both agree that the drafters of the religion clauses in the 1st amendment were chosen carefully, not haphazardly, and that because they have legal meaning, the use of the punctuation and grammar actually do matter. Can we agree on that?
I don't know where you get that I ever disagreed but sure....
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:31 PM   #39
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I don't know where you get that I ever disagreed but sure....
We haven't really yet, I just don't want to go through this and then have a claim that wording is inconsequential.

First of all would you agree that the "religion clause" in the first amendment are actually two clauses?
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:34 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by HolyHandgernade View Post
We haven't really yet, I just don't want to go through this and then have a claim that wording is inconsequential.

First of all would you agree that the "religion clause" in the first amendment are actually two clauses?
Yes, that I would
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:38 PM   #41
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http://www.salon.com/2014/01/21/gop_...ction_partner/

GOP insiders freak out: Could Tea Party blow another election?

With the Republican Party being torn apart by its internal civil war, an ideological battle that pits establishment Republicans against the no-compromise Tea Party/Christian Right, party backers are doing their best to suppress the craziness as the 2014 midterms approach. But are they succeeding?

The Chamber of Commerce and an assembly of anonymous plutocratic donors are pumping money into local congressional primaries to prevent Tea Party-endorsed candidates from scoring nominations. The plutocratic wing of the party is terrified of losing control of the House, and of missing its opportunity to win the Senate on the back of evangelical candidates who make factually incorrect remarks about rape or declare masturbation to be a sin.

“There is a broad concern about having blown a significant number of races because the wrong candidates were selected, “said Steven J. Law, president of Karl Rove’s American Crossroads. “We don’t view ourselves as being in the incumbent protection business, but we want to pick the most conservative candidate who can win.”

The establishment wing is discovering that it’s hard to keep the crazy quiet when your party’s voter base consists of neo-confederates, white supremacists, know-nothing libertarians, and evangelical theocrats. Moreover, social conservatives are no wilting wallflowers when it comes to raising campaign money. A recent Politico piece reported that roughly 25 socially conservative groups combined to pull in more than $280 million in 2011 and 2012. Notwithstanding the fact that much of the Koch brother’s political spending goes to the ideologically insane, too.

Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council president and darling of the Christian Right, has urged social conservatives to dump moderates in order to save religious liberty. In the first installment of the FRC’s political action plan for 2014, Perkins writes:

“The House of Representatives is where we have the greatest potential to make the greatest impact—to secure your religious liberties … and keep America from descending into a quagmire of self-destructive socialism.

This is urgently important because President Obama and his allies in Congress appear to be on a search-and-destroy mission when it comes to religious liberty. This administration has expressed its hostility to religious freedom at every turn: in the workplace, in the military, everywhere. They are fully engaged in what can only be described as a direct assault….We cannot, and we will not, allow this to happen.”

Social conservatives are obsessed with controlling all matters related to sex, religion and race. Chuck Thompson, author of Better Off Without Em: A Northern Manifesto for Southern Secession, says they have a “group-thought vendetta against liberals and other foreigners that is so besotted with religion, race, militarism, ancient grudges, and hidebound demagogic exaggeration that productive discourse and open exchange of ideas with outsiders become a virtual impossibility.”

It’s not that religious extremists won’t compromise, it’s that they can’t. If they could, they wouldn’t be extremists in the first place.

The Christian Right (Tea Party) is more motivated than ever to mobilize its supporters and challenge even those within their own party who stand in their way. Social conservatives are fighting for their existence as a movement within the Republican Party, and they’re leaving nothing behind in their crusade to remain the heart and soul of the party’s base.

“This election is when the Tea Party movement will professionalize how it engages in politics,” says Drew Ryun, the political director of the Madison Project, a conservative campaign group. “We are getting a game plan.”

This week, the Madison Project rolled out the first phase of its 2014 operation, announcing it would open five get-out-the-vote centers in Kentucky to work on behalf of Matt Bevin, the conservative businessman challenging Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-KY, in a May primary. Ryan says the Madison Project will launch mirror efforts in battlegrounds where the establishment wing of the GOP and the far right go head to head. “I don’t think it is any secret that the stakes for the 2014 election cycle are extremely high. That’s why it is important our groups know how to win in the trenches.”

The Senate Conservative Fund, a far-right political action committee, has already spent $2 million supporting far-right candidates in Senate races, four of whom are challenging incumbent GOP senators.

American Principles In Action published a paper in October arguing that suppressing the Christian Right “would likely consign the GOP to a permanent minority status,” whereas emphasizing social issues will help rally the base and attract coveted demographics with which the GOP has struggled, including Hispanics and “binders full of women.”

With both wings of the GOP well funded and mobilized, the battle for control of the heart and soul of the party will be long fought and bloody. As a result, it’ll be impossible for the Republican Party to keep a lid on the crazy. In fact, this year’s crazy has already jumped out of the far-right’s tri-cornered hat, and it’s barely the third week of January.

In South Carolina, state Sen. Lee Bright is challenging veteran Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) for his senate seat. Bright has not only called “FEMA a scam” but he has promised “to get rid of the IRS.” After seeing a video of IRS agents training with AR-15 rifles, Bright said, “They’re doing assault-weapon training, the Brown Shirts are next because that’s the enforcement for Obamacare. If you don’t have an IRS, you don’t have Obamacare. That’s the mechanism that’s controlling our lives for far too long.”

In a congressional district in northern Virginia, state Sen. Richard H. Black is contesting the Republican primary to replace longtime party stalwart Rep. Frank Wolf. Democrats, however, have uncovered a video of Black talking about his opposition to making spousal rape a crime. He said, “I do not know how you could validly get a conviction of a husband-wife rape, when they’re living together, sleeping in the same bed, she’s in a nightie and so forth. There’s not injuries, there’s no separation or anything.”

Mississippi state senator and Tea Party candidate Chris McDaniel is mounting a primary challenge to Sen. Thad Cochran (R-MS). Last week, Mother Jones surfaced comments McDaniel made about his unhappiness with the lack of Muslim villains in Hollywood films. McDaniel said, “They’ll go out of their way to find some Russian white guy that’s just nuts, and he’s the terrorist, which I’ve never seen that. But the Muslims, they’ve just disappeared from Hollywood’s radar.”

Greg Brannon, the North Carolina Republican Senate candidate endorsed by Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY), likened being on food stamps to slavery. “The answer is the Department of Agriculture should go away at the federal level,” Brannon said in an interview with the North Carolina Tea Party. “And now 80% of the farm bill is food stamps. That enslaves people.”

All in all, seven of the 12 GOP senators up for reelection in 2014 are facing primary opponents, which is a record number of challenges. The far right also plans to target 25 House races, highlighting the deep divisions within the Republican Party. Tea Party Express says, “The false narrative continues to be written that the Tea Party is dead and that 2014 will not be like 2010, but every month we see a strong example to the contrary.”

Enjoy the freak show, America.
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:39 PM   #42
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Excellent. So we have:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Congress shall make no law: this is the prefix for each clause, so each clause can be rewritten as such:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion

Congress shall make no law prohibiting the free exercise thereof

The word "thereof" is a reference back to another word in the first clause - "religion", therefore it could be rewritten thus:

Congress shall make no law prohibiting the free exercise of religion

That would mean the first clause is your freedom FROM religion and the second clause is your freedom OF religion. You can't logically have one without the other. Are we still in agreement?

EDIT sorry, I got the two backwards
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:44 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Cannibal View Post
http://www.salon.com/2014/01/21/gop_...ction_partner/

GOP insiders freak out: Could Tea Party blow another election?

With the Republican Party being torn apart by its internal civil war, an ideological battle that pits establishment Republicans against the no-compromise Tea Party/Christian Right, party backers are doing their best to suppress the craziness as the 2014 midterms approach. But are they succeeding?

The Chamber of Commerce and an assembly of anonymous plutocratic donors are pumping money into local congressional primaries to prevent Tea Party-endorsed candidates from scoring nominations. The plutocratic wing of the party is terrified of losing control of the House, and of missing its opportunity to win the Senate on the back of evangelical candidates who make factually incorrect remarks about rape or declare masturbation to be a sin.

“There is a broad concern about having blown a significant number of races because the wrong candidates were selected, “said Steven J. Law, president of Karl Rove’s American Crossroads. “We don’t view ourselves as being in the incumbent protection business, but we want to pick the most conservative candidate who can win.”

The establishment wing is discovering that it’s hard to keep the crazy quiet when your party’s voter base consists of neo-confederates, white supremacists, know-nothing libertarians, and evangelical theocrats. Moreover, social conservatives are no wilting wallflowers when it comes to raising campaign money. A recent Politico piece reported that roughly 25 socially conservative groups combined to pull in more than $280 million in 2011 and 2012. Notwithstanding the fact that much of the Koch brother’s political spending goes to the ideologically insane, too.

Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council president and darling of the Christian Right, has urged social conservatives to dump moderates in order to save religious liberty. In the first installment of the FRC’s political action plan for 2014, Perkins writes:

“The House of Representatives is where we have the greatest potential to make the greatest impact—to secure your religious liberties … and keep America from descending into a quagmire of self-destructive socialism.

This is urgently important because President Obama and his allies in Congress appear to be on a search-and-destroy mission when it comes to religious liberty. This administration has expressed its hostility to religious freedom at every turn: in the workplace, in the military, everywhere. They are fully engaged in what can only be described as a direct assault….We cannot, and we will not, allow this to happen.”

Social conservatives are obsessed with controlling all matters related to sex, religion and race. Chuck Thompson, author of Better Off Without Em: A Northern Manifesto for Southern Secession, says they have a “group-thought vendetta against liberals and other foreigners that is so besotted with religion, race, militarism, ancient grudges, and hidebound demagogic exaggeration that productive discourse and open exchange of ideas with outsiders become a virtual impossibility.”

It’s not that religious extremists won’t compromise, it’s that they can’t. If they could, they wouldn’t be extremists in the first place.

The Christian Right (Tea Party) is more motivated than ever to mobilize its supporters and challenge even those within their own party who stand in their way. Social conservatives are fighting for their existence as a movement within the Republican Party, and they’re leaving nothing behind in their crusade to remain the heart and soul of the party’s base.

“This election is when the Tea Party movement will professionalize how it engages in politics,” says Drew Ryun, the political director of the Madison Project, a conservative campaign group. “We are getting a game plan.”

This week, the Madison Project rolled out the first phase of its 2014 operation, announcing it would open five get-out-the-vote centers in Kentucky to work on behalf of Matt Bevin, the conservative businessman challenging Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-KY, in a May primary. Ryan says the Madison Project will launch mirror efforts in battlegrounds where the establishment wing of the GOP and the far right go head to head. “I don’t think it is any secret that the stakes for the 2014 election cycle are extremely high. That’s why it is important our groups know how to win in the trenches.”

The Senate Conservative Fund, a far-right political action committee, has already spent $2 million supporting far-right candidates in Senate races, four of whom are challenging incumbent GOP senators.

American Principles In Action published a paper in October arguing that suppressing the Christian Right “would likely consign the GOP to a permanent minority status,” whereas emphasizing social issues will help rally the base and attract coveted demographics with which the GOP has struggled, including Hispanics and “binders full of women.”

With both wings of the GOP well funded and mobilized, the battle for control of the heart and soul of the party will be long fought and bloody. As a result, it’ll be impossible for the Republican Party to keep a lid on the crazy. In fact, this year’s crazy has already jumped out of the far-right’s tri-cornered hat, and it’s barely the third week of January.

In South Carolina, state Sen. Lee Bright is challenging veteran Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) for his senate seat. Bright has not only called “FEMA a scam” but he has promised “to get rid of the IRS.” After seeing a video of IRS agents training with AR-15 rifles, Bright said, “They’re doing assault-weapon training, the Brown Shirts are next because that’s the enforcement for Obamacare. If you don’t have an IRS, you don’t have Obamacare. That’s the mechanism that’s controlling our lives for far too long.”

In a congressional district in northern Virginia, state Sen. Richard H. Black is contesting the Republican primary to replace longtime party stalwart Rep. Frank Wolf. Democrats, however, have uncovered a video of Black talking about his opposition to making spousal rape a crime. He said, “I do not know how you could validly get a conviction of a husband-wife rape, when they’re living together, sleeping in the same bed, she’s in a nightie and so forth. There’s not injuries, there’s no separation or anything.”

Mississippi state senator and Tea Party candidate Chris McDaniel is mounting a primary challenge to Sen. Thad Cochran (R-MS). Last week, Mother Jones surfaced comments McDaniel made about his unhappiness with the lack of Muslim villains in Hollywood films. McDaniel said, “They’ll go out of their way to find some Russian white guy that’s just nuts, and he’s the terrorist, which I’ve never seen that. But the Muslims, they’ve just disappeared from Hollywood’s radar.”

Greg Brannon, the North Carolina Republican Senate candidate endorsed by Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY), likened being on food stamps to slavery. “The answer is the Department of Agriculture should go away at the federal level,” Brannon said in an interview with the North Carolina Tea Party. “And now 80% of the farm bill is food stamps. That enslaves people.”

All in all, seven of the 12 GOP senators up for reelection in 2014 are facing primary opponents, which is a record number of challenges. The far right also plans to target 25 House races, highlighting the deep divisions within the Republican Party. Tea Party Express says, “The false narrative continues to be written that the Tea Party is dead and that 2014 will not be like 2010, but every month we see a strong example to the contrary.”

Enjoy the freak show, America.

It's hard to take this seriously when it's filled with nothing but insult after insult after insult. The people I have talked to who seem to be supportive of the Tea Party are far from Bible thumping, RWNJ's.

In fact an article like this wreaks of establishment Repub's calling in a favor to attack those who threaten their power.
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:45 PM   #44
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:47 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HolyHandgernade View Post
Excellent. So we have:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Congress shall make no law: this is the prefix for each clause, so each clause can be rewritten as such:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion

Congress shall make no law prohibiting the free exercise thereof

The word "thereof" is a reference back to another word in the first clause - "religion", therefore it could be rewritten thus:

Congress shall make no law prohibiting the free exercise of religion

That would mean the first clause is your freedom FROM religion and the second clause is your freedom OF religion. You can't logically have one without the other. Are we still in agreement?

EDIT sorry, I got the two backwards
Okay, I think you took my "Freedom from religion" comment a little to literally. It was a figure of speech intended to imply that it seems that we are getting to the point where we are trashing religion from a legal aspect at every turn and therefore are actually violating the Constitution.
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