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Old 02-24-2014, 07:22 PM  
mlyonsd mlyonsd is online now
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The new environmental activist tactic - censorship

Heating up: Climate change advocates try to silence Krauthammer

By Howard Kurtz
Published February 24, 2014FoxNews.com

Charles Krauthammer says it right up front in his Washington Post column: “I’m not a global warming believer. I’m not a global warming denier.”

He does, however, challenge the notion that the science on climate change is settled and says those who insist otherwise are engaged in “a crude attempt to silence critics and delegitimize debate.”

How ironic, then, that some environmental activists launched a petition urging the Post not to publish Krauthammer’s column on Friday.

Their response to opinions they disagree with is to suppress the speech.

Brad Johnson (@ClimateBrad), the editor of HillHeat.com and a former Think Progress staffer, boasted on Twitter that 110,000 people had urged the newspaper “to stop publishing climate lies” like the Krauthammer piece.

I understand that many people are passionate about global warming and consider skeptics to be flat-earthers. Those who don’t like the arguments by Krauthammer, a Fox News contributor, should by all means criticize, dispute, denounce and otherwise go at him. That’s how debate takes place in a country with a vibrant media culture.

Instead, these folks believe that censorship is preferable. Why engage Krauthammer when they might just be able to employ pressure tactics to silence him? And what’s the difference between this and shouting down a speaker at a town hall?

Krauthammer told me the petition-signers “showed up just in time to make precisely the point I made in the column.”

When it comes to free speech, he says, “they don’t even hide it anymore. Now they proudly want certain arguments banished from discourse. The next step is book burning. So the question of the day is: Can you light a Kindle?

“Is there anything more anti-scientific than scientific truths being determined by petition and demonstration?”

Maybe this reflects a broader trend in which people want to wall themselves off from contrary information — and wall off others as well. Debating a complicated subject like climate change — and, equally important, what to do about it — is difficult. Attempting to silence the other side is the easy way out.

Of course, most climate-change proponents are perfectly willing to argue their case on the merits. Unfortunately, that doesn’t apply to everyone.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014...e-krauthammer/
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:51 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
My weakest post is better than most people's strongest post.
Not in this thread.
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:58 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by cdcox View Post
Krauthhammer was the one constructing strawmen. See the middle link.
The strawman that link claims Krauthammer has constructed is the notion that there are scientists that claim to know what spewing tons of CO2 into the atmosphere will cause in 20, 30, or 50 years. There may or may not be scientists who make such claims*, but the fact that many scientists don't supports Krauthammer's thesis that the science isn't settled and there's still much to learn/debate/verify/refute.

Some general aspects of the science may well be settled to a reasonable degree. But the science isn't settled to the extent that sweeping policy changes can be made with confidence. Your article acknowledges as much. Your article points out that uncertainties and other model shortcomings are generally acknowledged in scientific literature. What it doesn't mention is that these uncertainties are often left out of statements made for general public consumption, particularly when they're made by politicians, activists, or journalists with an agenda, but also in some cases by scientists themselves.
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Old 02-25-2014, 08:33 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by cdcox View Post
Explain why climate scientists have not formed a consensus opinion on the matter.

among the scientists that get invited to all the cool parties there is a consensus of opinion...
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Old 02-25-2014, 08:37 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
The strawman that link claims Krauthammer has constructed is the notion that there are scientists that claim to know what spewing tons of CO2 into the atmosphere will cause in 20, 30, or 50 years. There may or may not be scientists who make such claims*, but the fact that many scientists don't supports Krauthammer's thesis that the science isn't settled and there's still much to learn/debate/verify/refute.

Some general aspects of the science may well be settled to a reasonable degree. But the science isn't settled to the extent that sweeping policy changes can be made with confidence. Your article acknowledges as much. Your article points out that uncertainties and other model shortcomings are generally acknowledged in scientific literature. What it doesn't mention is that these uncertainties are often left out of statements made for general public consumption, particularly when they're made by politicians, activists, or journalists with an agenda, but also in some cases by scientists themselves.
So would you agree with any of the following:

1) anthropogenic climate change is occurring and those that argue that it is not are doing so from a position that is unsupported by scientific evidence

2) the projected risks that are classified as "likely to occur" are significant and it not be prudent to ignore them

3) using the atmosphere to dump emissions of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases has a real economic cost associated with it

4) the most extreme solutions that have been proposed are unfeasible and are non-starters

5) reasonable action to accelerate development of economical sources of renewable energy should be pursued at a multi-national level even if doing so places a slight drag on current economic growth.

6) the learning curve principal (known as Moore's law in computing) demonstrates that actual implementation of a technology can be a powerful force for technological advancement; therefore, an important component of point 5) is to deploy significant quantities of renewable energy even if it seems uneconomical when the costs listed in 3) are ignored

7) strategies to make communities and societies more resilient to impending climate change should be developed in the near future and implemented as the costs of their deployment are economically justified by climate events
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Old 02-25-2014, 08:38 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by headsnap View Post
among the scientists that get invited to all the cool parties there is a consensus of opinion...
The ones feeding at the government trough.
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Old 02-25-2014, 08:41 PM   #51
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Now who is trying to hide behind semantics? The activists certainly have no power to censor anyone, but they are calling on the Washington Post to censor someone as the thread OP indicates.
I was going with the typical usage of the term. You wanted to play semantics, so I joined in. Based on that, the thread title and Kurtz's column is complete bullshit.
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Old 02-25-2014, 08:44 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
I was going with the typical usage of the term. You wanted to play semantics, so I joined in. Based on that, the thread title and Kurtz's column is complete bullshit.
LOL, no you started it by not understanding what the word censorship means. Everything you've posted since then is bullshit.
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Old 02-25-2014, 08:50 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by headsnap View Post
among the scientists that get invited to all the cool parties there is a consensus of opinion...
Scientists have all kinds of parties that have formed a consensus of opinion:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scienti...climate_change

You think the deniers could have a party too. They had one, but had to close it down when corporations decided they did not want to be affiliated with the funding agency (Heartland Institute) any longer.

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/201...nd-institute/#
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Old 02-25-2014, 08:52 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post
LOL, no you started it by not understanding what the word censorship means. Everything you've posted since then is bullshit.
Under the typical usage, you're wrong. And under the broader usage of the term, you're also wrong.
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Old 02-25-2014, 08:52 PM   #55
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The smartest thing we could do is to cut government funding for any climate research for 50 years and then judge what the facts are.
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Old 02-25-2014, 08:54 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Under the typical usage, you're wrong. And under the broader usage of the term, you're also wrong.
Under the actual definition I'm right but if you want to play semantics go ahead.
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Old 02-25-2014, 08:58 PM   #57
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The smartest thing we could do is to cut government funding for any climate research for 50 years and then judge what the facts are.
Sounds GOOD to me!
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Old 02-25-2014, 08:59 PM   #58
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I remember being told in the 90's that Florida would be underwater in 5 years. Still here.
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Old 02-25-2014, 09:00 PM   #59
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post
The smartest thing we could do is to cut government funding for any climate research for 50 years and then judge what the facts are.
What facts? You haven't done any research for 50 years. Brilliant.
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Old 02-25-2014, 09:01 PM   #60
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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I remember being told in the 90's that Florida would be underwater in 5 years. Still here.
Sure. Link?
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