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Old 02-24-2014, 07:22 PM  
mlyonsd mlyonsd is offline
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The new environmental activist tactic - censorship

Heating up: Climate change advocates try to silence Krauthammer

By Howard Kurtz
Published February 24, 2014FoxNews.com

Charles Krauthammer says it right up front in his Washington Post column: “I’m not a global warming believer. I’m not a global warming denier.”

He does, however, challenge the notion that the science on climate change is settled and says those who insist otherwise are engaged in “a crude attempt to silence critics and delegitimize debate.”

How ironic, then, that some environmental activists launched a petition urging the Post not to publish Krauthammer’s column on Friday.

Their response to opinions they disagree with is to suppress the speech.

Brad Johnson (@ClimateBrad), the editor of HillHeat.com and a former Think Progress staffer, boasted on Twitter that 110,000 people had urged the newspaper “to stop publishing climate lies” like the Krauthammer piece.

I understand that many people are passionate about global warming and consider skeptics to be flat-earthers. Those who don’t like the arguments by Krauthammer, a Fox News contributor, should by all means criticize, dispute, denounce and otherwise go at him. That’s how debate takes place in a country with a vibrant media culture.

Instead, these folks believe that censorship is preferable. Why engage Krauthammer when they might just be able to employ pressure tactics to silence him? And what’s the difference between this and shouting down a speaker at a town hall?

Krauthammer told me the petition-signers “showed up just in time to make precisely the point I made in the column.”

When it comes to free speech, he says, “they don’t even hide it anymore. Now they proudly want certain arguments banished from discourse. The next step is book burning. So the question of the day is: Can you light a Kindle?

“Is there anything more anti-scientific than scientific truths being determined by petition and demonstration?”

Maybe this reflects a broader trend in which people want to wall themselves off from contrary information — and wall off others as well. Debating a complicated subject like climate change — and, equally important, what to do about it — is difficult. Attempting to silence the other side is the easy way out.

Of course, most climate-change proponents are perfectly willing to argue their case on the merits. Unfortunately, that doesn’t apply to everyone.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014...e-krauthammer/
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:28 PM   #76
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This is my point. Once you get past the denial stage, and ignore the most extreme proposals, reasonable people can talk about moderate steps that could be taken to address the situation. But we can't do that because we can't move past the denial stage.

Number 7 doesn't really require that much projecting of cost/benefits. For example, a seawall to protect NYC is projected at $20B. Sandy cost NYC $19B in lost economic activity and 43 lives. If you get another Sandy type storm in the next 10 years, it is pretty clear evidence that the cost benefit favors building the seawall.

But you don't spend billions, on a projection of something that might happen. In other words, if Sandy had not yet occurred, and someone were advocating a seawall for NYC based on predicted potential storms that would crash the city, I'd say let's wait and see.

But the planning for these types of hardened infrastructure takes time, and often times multiple iterations, so we should begin that planning process now.
Do we build a seawall for every major city on the coast or just NYC? Shouldn't the people of NYC or the state of New York be interested in building a seawall if the cost benefit case is so strong? Or is it possible that there are other, higher priority uses for that $20b?

I don't think denial is the only obstacle here. It might not even be the biggest. It makes sense to consider ideas like the NYC seawall, but there are opportunity costs involved too.
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:35 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Do we build a seawall for every major city on the coast or just NYC? Shouldn't the people of NYC or the state of New York be interested in building a seawall if the cost benefit case is so strong? Or is it possible that there are other, higher priority uses for that $20b?

I don't think denial is the only obstacle here. It might not even be the biggest. It makes sense to consider ideas like the NYC seawall, but there are opportunity costs involved too.
Yes we need to consider all of these issues, and it takes time and thoughtful people talking to one another, and tough decisions based on probabilities, incomplete information, and competing priorities. The modern world is complicated.

But we aren't going to deal with that because half of the political machinery and the haha-cow-farts! people and I-won't-talk-science-because-UN-one-world-government people prevent serious grownup public discourse about the issues that you and I are bringing up.
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:45 PM   #78
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You will never have 100% consensus on any scientific issue. There is too much hay to be made on a margin for a denialist. There are scientists who believe that HIV doesn't cause AIDS, either. It doesn't mean they are anything less than ill-informed whackjobs.

It's not a coincidence that an overwhelming majority of Americans believed in man-made climate change a decade ago, and now only half do. That decade has corresponded with one of the most aggressive anti-science movements in the history of the country.
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Old 02-25-2014, 11:22 PM   #79
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Then why does the left regularly state there is a consensus -- and that the debate is over? I mean I don't recall anyone on the right claiming the consensus had to be 100% either. I think you added that on your own.
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Old 02-25-2014, 11:45 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Then why does the left regularly state there is a consensus -- and that the debate is over? I mean I don't recall anyone on the right claiming the consensus had to be 100% either. I think you added that on your own.
Explain why you believe that climate scientists have not formed a consensus opinion on the matter? What is your evidence that a consensus has not been formed? Please consider this as evidence of a consensus:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scienti...climate_change
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Old 02-26-2014, 03:00 PM   #81
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A consensus isn't science, especially when you fabricate the consensus.
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Old 02-26-2014, 03:49 PM   #82
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Greenpeace Co-Founder Tells U.S. Senate: Earth’s Geologic History ‘fundamentally contradicts’ CO2 Climate Fears: ‘We had both higher temps and an ice age at a time when CO2 emissions were 10 times higher than they are today’

Today, we live in an unusually cold period in the history of life on earth and there is no reason to believe that a warmer climate would be anything but beneficial for humans and the majority of other species...It is “extremely likely” that a warmer temperature than today’s would be far better than a cooler one.'

Earth’s Geologic History Fails CO2 Fears: ‘The fact that we had both higher temperatures and an ice age at a time when CO2 emissions were 10 times higher than they are today fundamentally contradicts the certainty that human-caused CO2 emissions are the main cause of global warming...When modern life evolved over 500 million years ago, CO2 was more than 10 times higher than today, yet life flourished at this time. Then an Ice Age occurred 450 million years ago when CO2 was 10 times higher than today.'


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Old 02-26-2014, 03:50 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
You will never have 100% consensus on any scientific issue. There is too much hay to be made on a margin for a denialist. There are scientists who believe that HIV doesn't cause AIDS, either. It doesn't mean they are anything less than ill-informed whackjobs.

It's not a coincidence that an overwhelming majority of Americans believed in man-made climate change a decade ago, and now only half do. That decade has corresponded with one of the most aggressive anti-science movements in the history of the country.
douche
Humans are a tropical species. We evolved at the equator in a climate where freezing weather did not exist. The only reasons we can survive these cold climates are fire, clothing, and housing…It is “extremely likely” that a warmer temperature than today’s would be far better than a cooler one.
http://www.climatedepot.com/2014/02/...were-10-times/
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Old 02-26-2014, 03:54 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by LiveSteam View Post
It is “extremely likely” that a warmer temperature than today’s would be far better than a cooler one.
Of course it is better because plants and trees grow more, and faster; food growing seasons last longer providing more food; less fuel is needed for warmth in the winters. There was a Medieval warming period and in Europe the people flourished during it. It's all a good thing.
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Old 02-26-2014, 04:06 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Of course it is better because plants and trees grow more, and faster; food growing seasons last longer providing more food; less fuel is needed for warmth in the winters. There was a Medieval warming period and in Europe the people flourished during it. It's all a good thing.
They fall for the biggest scam ever & yet so quick to call people birthers,truthers,ect.
Bush lied people died
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Old 02-26-2014, 04:08 PM   #86
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douche
Humans are a tropical species. We evolved at the equator in a climate where freezing weather did not exist. The only reasons we can survive these cold climates are fire, clothing, and housing…It is “extremely likely” that a warmer temperature than today’s would be far better than a cooler one.
http://www.climatedepot.com/2014/02/...were-10-times/
FYI.... the source site Climate Depot is a known misinformation site. Its owner was recently awarded with the 2012 Climate Change Misinformer of the Year. It's one of the most misinformed webpages you can find about the topic.

Click the link at the bottom of the quote, and you'll find more info than you ever wanted to know about the clown Marc Morano who runs Climate Depot.

Quote:
ClimateDepot.com founder Marc Morano has been called "the Matt Drudge of climate denial," the "king of the skeptics," and "a central cell of the climate-denial machine," and he revels in these descriptions. Although he has no scientific expertise, he is adamant that manmade global warming is a "con job" based on "subprime science." Morano gained prominence working for two of the most vocal climate deniers in the U.S.: Sen. James Inhofe (R-OK), who notoriously called climate change "the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the American people," and Rush Limbaugh, who we named Climate Change Misinformer of the Year in 2011 for his steadfast denial of climate science and wild conspiracy theories about the climate change "hoax."

These days Morano is paid by an industry-funded group to run the climate denial website ClimateDepot.com. At Climate Depot, Morano serves as the de facto research department for the right-wing media's attacks on climate science, and mobilizes his readers to target individual scientists and reporters for telling the public about climate change threats. The site was instrumental in manufacturing the 2009 "Climategate" controversy, which Morano incorrectly claimed exposed "deliberate manipulation of facts and data" by climate scientists. Morano is a darling of the organization most committed to climate denial, the Heartland Institute. He regularly speaks at their conferences and defended their controversial billboard comparing those who accept climate science to "murderers, tyrants, and madmen" including the Unabomber Ted Kaczynski.

Due to his history of smears and lies, Morano's media influence is usually confined to Rush Limbaugh, Fox News, and conspiracy theorist Alex Jones. But in December, CNN invited him to "debate" Bill Nye on climate science, and in doing so elevated his marginal views to the mainstream press for the first time all year. For all this, Marc Morano has earned the distinction of 2012 Climate Change Misinformer of the Year.

http://mediamatters.org/research/201...arc-mor/191878
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Old 02-26-2014, 04:13 PM   #87
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Of course




It could snow nonstop for the next decade & you people would still be saying the same old shit.
You can never EVER be wrong on anything. Its unreal with some of you
Then you **** heads point fingers at others. It's amazing,in a very un-amazing way
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Old 02-26-2014, 04:20 PM   #88
LiveSteam LiveSteam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish View Post
FYI.... the source site Climate Depot is a known misinformation site. Its owner was recently awarded with the 2012 Climate Change Misinformer of the Year. It's one of the most misinformed webpages you can find about the topic.

Click the link at the bottom of the quote, and you'll find more info than you ever wanted to know about the clown Marc Morano who runs Climate Depot.
The fact you even think I would waist 1 second of my time on any Warmer site
Just proves my point with you moonbats
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Old 02-26-2014, 04:20 PM   #89
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So Fish uses media matters as a reference for discrediting a site as disinfo!

O.M.G. The irony in that. Left-wing foundations lavish millions on that agit-prop disinfo site.
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Old 02-26-2014, 04:26 PM   #90
LiveSteam LiveSteam is offline
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
So Fish uses media matters as a reference for discrediting a site as disinfo!

O.M.G. The irony in that. Left-wing foundations lavish millions on that agit-prop disinfo site.
It's par for the course around here
I shit you not, one hypocrite on this page, asked for my prayers & everyone else's on this board. I prayed for that family. Three months later, the douche is telling me what a loser I am (aids fire) because I disagree with his view of the world.
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