Home Mail MemberMap Chat (0) Wallpapers
Go Back   ChiefsPlanet > The Ed & Dave Lounge > D.C.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-26-2014, 07:07 PM  
Dave Lane Dave Lane is offline
Space Cadet and Aczabel
 
Dave Lane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Kansas City, Mo, USA
Casino cash: $5377
VARSITY
Down goes Arizonas Anti-gay Bill

Governor vetoes it.
Posts: 23,989
Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2014, 09:50 PM   #106
Trolly McTrollson Trolly McTrollson is offline
Starter
 
Trolly McTrollson's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2012
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Where is this stated in the Constitution?
At the risk of sounding patronizing, there's more to US law than what's explicitly written in the Constitution. The Civil Rights Act of 1964, which is the law of the land (again, not trying to sound patronizing), pretty clearly lays out public accommodations law. You can't just refuse to let gays or blacks into your restaurant, sry.
Posts: 245
Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2014, 09:53 PM   #107
Trolly McTrollson Trolly McTrollson is offline
Starter
 
Trolly McTrollson's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2012
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Because you don't understand what this law addresses. It addresses things like being made to photograph a gay wedding. It does not address providing other services to the public that the same vendor supplies. Say portraiture photos. Or baking a cake. But making a gay wedding cake is another matter.
At what part has any of that been a thing that practicing Christians can't do? Where's the Christian injunction against photographing gay weddings, and what's the scriptural support?

It's made-up-on-the-spot theology made up to rationalize hate, pure and simple. Ought to be appalling to real Christians, using God's name like that.


NB: WTF is the difference between baking a gay wedding cake and a regular cake? Extra glitter in the batter?
Posts: 245
Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2014, 10:20 PM   #108
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is online now
Debunking your bullshit
 
cosmo20002's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: KC area
Casino cash: $5450
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
I don't agree with quite a bit of your post but frankly I'll admit a certain degree of ignorance of the subject matter. I will say that there certainly some people who its fairly obvious the behavior is more nurture than nature. Of course I also don't think it's a black or white issue but a matter of degrees... especially when it comes to sexual orientation for women. BUT for the sake of this discussion let's keep it simple and just limit the issue to those who are "born gay."
Wait...what? What did Austin just say? I may have to use this in my signature to memorialize it.
Cliff Clavin would not be impressed by this.
Posts: 17,830
cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2014, 10:36 PM   #109
Xanathol Xanathol is offline
Starter
 

Join Date: Mar 2011
Casino cash: $5065
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
As I addressed in another post. Let's keep it simple and go with the people who are "born gay." We can start a seperate thread if we want to address the particulars of that argument.
But that's just it - you cannot separate the two.

One's race is their race from birth no matter what they do, how they act, or what they choose. There is never at any moment in time the ability or option to choose one's race nor is it ever reflective of any other aspect of that person's choices or who they are. It is innate, never changing, never moving and does not require one to act upon any urge or choice of lifestyle.

The same cannot ever be said about sexuality. Even if someone truly feels they were born that way, there are still thought processes involved, emotions, conflicts, and decisions - to act upon said urges, to keep secret or proclaim it, etc - things that can never exist in the same way as, say, one's race.

All other discussions on the matter are about as relevant as debating which side of a drinking straw is up or down. Sexuality is a decision made at a point in time (be it purely a choice or acting upon one's genetic makeup) and can change overtime. Therefore, it is fundamentally flawed when sexuality is categorized as a 'protected class' akin to race or gender. Allowing such would mean having to allow other such choices which eventually lead to a continuum between two 'protected classes' of choice and ultimately chaos.
Posts: 519
Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2014, 10:42 PM   #110
Xanathol Xanathol is offline
Starter
 

Join Date: Mar 2011
Casino cash: $5065
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
Try to keep up. That has nothing to do with what we are talking about here.
Actually, it looks like you got left behind here. BEP was showing that religious choice is one of the fundamental protections provided, trumping any notion of a 'protected class'. Anything you want to propose in regards to a 'protected class' cannot infringe on one's religious beliefs.
Posts: 519
Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2014, 10:46 PM   #111
AustinChief AustinChief is offline
Administrator
 
AustinChief's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Austin
Casino cash: $5210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanathol View Post
Actually, it looks like you got left behind here. BEP was showing that religious choice is one of the fundamental protections provided, trumping any notion of a 'protected class'. Anything you want to propose in regards to a 'protected class' cannot infringe on one's religious beliefs.
Um, nope. That is not at all the case nor is it at all germane to this discussion. Unless you feel that the entire 1964 Civil Rights Act is a violation of the 1st Amendment. (Holy hell I just realized, BEP probably does believe that...)
Posts: 14,508
AustinChief has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.AustinChief has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.AustinChief has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.AustinChief has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.AustinChief has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.AustinChief has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.AustinChief has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.AustinChief has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.AustinChief has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.AustinChief has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.AustinChief has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2014, 10:47 PM   #112
Xanathol Xanathol is offline
Starter
 

Join Date: Mar 2011
Casino cash: $5065
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson View Post
At what part has any of that been a thing that practicing Christians can't do? Where's the Christian injunction against photographing gay weddings, and what's the scriptural support?

It's made-up-on-the-spot theology made up to rationalize hate, pure and simple. Ought to be appalling to real Christians, using God's name like that.


NB: WTF is the difference between baking a gay wedding cake and a regular cake? Extra glitter in the batter?
Evidently your knowledge of Christianity is minimal. A Christian is never to condone one's sin. By helping to celebrate a sin and revel in it, to celebrate something that by definition within your religious doctrine cannot be, you too are committing a sin.
Posts: 519
Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2014, 10:56 PM   #113
Xanathol Xanathol is offline
Starter
 

Join Date: Mar 2011
Casino cash: $5065
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
Um, nope. That is not at all the case nor is it at all germane to this discussion. Unless you feel that the entire 1964 Civil Rights Act is a violation of the 1st Amendment. (Holy hell I just realized, BEP probably does believe that...)
"Race, color, religion, sex, or national origin". In the US, which of those has had a direct contradiction to a major religion's belief(s)? Exactly - not one. And many states give businesses the right to refuse service to anyone, still to this day and it is upheld. I'll save my opinions on the act itself for another thread if you wish, but as it pertains to this topic, it should be pretty clear that the act doesn't matter.
Posts: 519
Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Xanathol must have mowed badgirl's lawn.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2014, 11:07 PM   #114
AustinChief AustinChief is offline
Administrator
 
AustinChief's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Austin
Casino cash: $5210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanathol View Post
"Race, color, religion, sex, or national origin". In the US, which of those has had a direct contradiction to a major religion's belief(s)? Exactly - not one. And many states give businesses the right to refuse service to anyone, still to this day and it is upheld. I'll save my opinions on the act itself for another thread if you wish, but as it pertains to this topic, it should be pretty clear that the act doesn't matter.
One could easily argue that a Muslim's religion gives them a right to discriminate based on sex... yet the Civil Rights Act specifically makes that illegal... yes, even in the case of a private business. In the context of this thread the Act is all that matters, not the 1st Amendment. This is of course assuming that sexual orientation will become a protected class (it is halfway there already). My point is that if you HAVE to have protected classes, you damn well should make a clear set of rules as to what defines that status and not just some bullshit "list" like we have now. The only way religion qualifies is because it is a list and not a logically consistent set of rules. My example of the Klan at the dry cleaners is back on the table as to WHY religion being a protected class is just plain dumb. Why can a Jewish dry cleaner discriminate against a Klan member but a Muslim dry cleaner can't discriminate against a Jew? The only answer right now is because Judaism is a religion and the KKK is not. So we are basing an important point of law on a fairly arbitrary label for a belief system. Call your belief system a "religion" and POOF you are protected. That is silly.

(Just to be clear I am in NO WAY endorsing the Klan (or even any religion over another), the KKK just make a for convenient historic group with an extremely offensive ideology)
Posts: 14,508
AustinChief has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.AustinChief has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.AustinChief has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.AustinChief has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.AustinChief has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.AustinChief has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.AustinChief has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.AustinChief has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.AustinChief has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.AustinChief has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.AustinChief has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2014, 06:09 AM   #115
Trolly McTrollson Trolly McTrollson is offline
Starter
 
Trolly McTrollson's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2012
Casino cash: $5000
If the extreme-right social conservatives were to say "I don't want gays in my store because they gross me out!" everyone would recognize how juvenile that is and just tell them to grow up. Instead, they've masked their position behind a fakey veneer of religion: "I don't want gays in my shop because of my deep religious conviction!"
Posts: 245
Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2014, 06:12 AM   #116
Trolly McTrollson Trolly McTrollson is offline
Starter
 
Trolly McTrollson's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2012
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanathol View Post
Evidently your knowledge of Christianity is minimal. A Christian is never to condone one's sin. By helping to celebrate a sin and revel in it, to celebrate something that by definition within your religious doctrine cannot be, you too are committing a sin.
You're not condoning anyone's sin by serving them lunch. You don't have to approve of gays or like them. You don't have to hang out with them after work and watch The View. You just can't violate their right to public accommodations.

Do you refuse to serve atheists or adulterers at your place of business? If you sell a cheeseburger to a bank robber are you complicit in their sin? Frankly, this is new to me. I've never heard Christians say they can't do business with sinners before. Are you guys allowed to buy from stores that are owned/operated by gays?
Posts: 245
Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Trolly McTrollson must have mowed badgirl's lawn.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2014, 06:51 AM   #117
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
BucPatriot
 
BucEyedPea's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: None of your business
Casino cash: $5650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson View Post
You're not condoning anyone's sin by serving them lunch.
But what if you're forced to make a photo of their wedding or bake their cake and put a statuette of two men or two women on top?

Is that making graven images?
__________________
Posts: 57,011
BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2014, 06:59 AM   #118
theelusiveeightrop theelusiveeightrop is offline
Spiraling down the Drain
 
theelusiveeightrop's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Dante's Ninth Circle
Casino cash: $5558
Quote:
Originally Posted by fan4ever View Post
Maybe they passed the bill so they could know what was in it.
__________________
"We're both part of the same hypocrisy, Senator, but never think it applies to my family."

2014 Adopt a Chief - Travis Kelce #87
Posts: 19,546
theelusiveeightrop is obviously part of the inner Circle.theelusiveeightrop is obviously part of the inner Circle.theelusiveeightrop is obviously part of the inner Circle.theelusiveeightrop is obviously part of the inner Circle.theelusiveeightrop is obviously part of the inner Circle.theelusiveeightrop is obviously part of the inner Circle.theelusiveeightrop is obviously part of the inner Circle.theelusiveeightrop is obviously part of the inner Circle.theelusiveeightrop is obviously part of the inner Circle.theelusiveeightrop is obviously part of the inner Circle.theelusiveeightrop is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2014, 07:02 AM   #119
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
BucPatriot
 
BucEyedPea's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: None of your business
Casino cash: $5650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson View Post
At the risk of sounding patronizing, there's more to US law than what's explicitly written in the Constitution. The Civil Rights Act of 1964, which is the law of the land (again, not trying to sound patronizing), pretty clearly lays out public accommodations law. You can't just refuse to let gays or blacks into your restaurant, sry.
Nice basis for not following it and why you can't articulate an argument as to why. There's some reasoning behind some of those points like conflicting rights but you offer nothing. You're making an argument for being not a nation of laws; but of men.

Many strict constructionists consider the CRA 1964 violates the Constitution's because it relies on the commerce clause when interstate commerce wasn't being regulated. It was one of those very wide stretches to make it law.

Other than that, you keep relying on a strawman argument (logical fallacy) to what I posted about being coerced by law to make images, aka speech, one does not agree with. I said nothing about serving gays on other routine services.....in fact I specified that.
__________________
Posts: 57,011
BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2014, 07:05 AM   #120
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
BucPatriot
 
BucEyedPea's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: None of your business
Casino cash: $5650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson View Post
If the extreme-right social conservatives were to say "I don't want gays in my store because they gross me out!" everyone would recognize how juvenile that is and just tell them to grow up. Instead, they've masked their position behind a fakey veneer of religion: "I don't want gays in my shop because of my deep religious conviction!"
Another strawman.
__________________
Posts: 57,011
BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.