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Old 02-20-2014, 01:35 PM  
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2014 NFL Combine - Players - The WRs

Wide Receivers:

Jared Abbrederis, Wisconsin
6'1", 195 lb., 31 3/8" arms, 9 5/8" hands

Davante Adams, Fresno State
6'1", 212 lb., 32 5/8" arms, 9" hands

Odell Beckham, LSU
5'11 1/4", 198 lb., 32 3/4" arms, 10" hands

Kelvin Benjamin, Florida State
6'5", 240 lb., 34 7/8" arms, 10 1/4" hands

Christopher Boyd, Vanderbilt
6'4", 206 lb., 32 5/8" arms, 9 3/8" hands

Philly Brown, Ohio State
5'11", 178 lb., 31 3/4" arms, 9 3/8" hands

John Brown, Pittsburg State
5'11", 179 lb., 30 1/2" arms, 8 1/2" hands

Martavis Bryant, Clemson
6'3 1/2", 211 lb., 32 5/8" arms, 9 1/2" hands

Isaiah Burse, Fresno State
5'10", 188 lb., 30 1/4" arms, 8 3/8" hands

Michael Campanaro, Wake Forest
5'9", 192 lb., 30" arms, 9 3/4" hands

Brandon Coleman Rutgers
6'6", 225 lb., 34" arms, 9 1/4" hands

Kain Colter, Northwestern
5'10", 198 lb., 31" arms, 10" hands

Brandin Cooks, Oregon State
5'9 1/2", 189 lb., 30 1/2" arms, 9 5/8" hands

Damian Copeland, Louisville
5'11", 184 lb., 31 3/8" arms, 9" hands

Mike Davis, Texas
6'0", 197 lb., 32 3/4" arms, 10" hands

Bruce Ellington, South Carolina
5'9 1/4", 197 lb., 31" arms, 9 5/8" hands

Quincy Enunwa, Nebraska
6'2", 225 lb., 32 5/8" arms, 9 1/2" hands

Mike Evans, Texas A&M
6'4 1/2", 231 lb., 35 1/8" arms, 9 5/8" hands

Shaq Evans, UCLA
6'1", 213 lb., 32" arms, 9 3/8" hands

Bennie Fowler, Michigan State
6'1", 217 lb., 32" arms, 9 3/8" hands

Austin Franklin, New Mexico State
5'11", 189 lb., 31 1/4" arms, 10" hands

Jeremy Gallon, Michigan
5'7", 185 lb., 29 1/2" arms, 9 3/8" hands

Ryan Grant, Tulane
6'0", 199 lb., 31" arms, 9 5/8" hands

Matt Hazel, Coastal Carolina
6'1", 198 lb., 31 2/8" arms, 9 1/8" hands

Robert Herron, Wyoming
5'9", 193 lb., 30 1/2" arms, 9 3/4" hands

Cody Hoffman, BYU
6'4", 223 lb., 33 1/4" arms, 9 3/4" hands

Josh Huff, Oregon
5'11", 206 lb., 31 1/4" arms, 9 3/8" hands

Allen Hurns, Miami (FL)
6'1", 198 lb., 32" arms, 9 1/4" hands

Jeff Janis, Saginaw Valley State
6'3", 219 lb., 32 1/2" arms, 9" hands

T.J. Jones, Notre Dame
6'0", 188 lb., 30 5/8" arms, 10" hands

Jarvis Landry, LSU
5'11 1/4", 198 lb., 31 1/4" arms, 10 1/4" hands

Cody Latimer, Indiana
6'2", 215 lb., 32 5/8" arms, 9 5/8" hands

Marqise Lee, USC
5'11 1/2", 192 lb., 31 1/4" arms, 9 1/2" hands

Marcus Lucas, Missouri
6'4", 218 lb., 33 5/8" arms, 9 3/8" hands

Jordan Matthews, Vanderbilt
6'3", 212 lb., 33 1/4" arms, 10 3/4" hands

Donte Moncrief, Mississippi
6'2", 221 lb., 32 2/8" arms, 9 1/8" hands

Kevin Norwood, Alabama
6'2", 198 lb., 32 1/8" arms, 10" hands

Walt Powell, Murray State
5'11", 189 lb., 31 5/8" arms, 9 1/2" hands

Tevin Reese, Baylor
5'10", 163 lb., 31 5/8" arms, 8 5/8" hands

Paul Richardson, Colorado
6'0", 175 lb., 32 5/8" arms, 8 7/8" hands

Allen Robinson, Penn State
6'2 1/4", 220 lb., 32" arms, 9 1/2" hands

Jalen Saunders, Oklahoma
5'9", 163 lb., 30" arms, 8 7/8" hands

Willie Snead, Ball State
5'11", 195 lb., 31" arms, 10 1/4" hands

Josh Stewart, Oklahoma State
5'10", 178 lb., 30" arms, 9 3/8" hands

Devin Street, Pittsburgh
6'3", 198 lb., 33 2/8" arms, 9 1/4" hands

L'Damian Washington, Missouri
6'4", 195 lb., 33 3/8" arms, 9" hands

Sammy Watkins, Clemson
6'0 1/2", 211 lb., 32" arms, 9 5/8" hands

Albert Wilson, Georgia State
5'9", 202 lb., 30 3/8" arms, 9 1/8" hands


2013 Top WR Drafted & Combine Results:

Tavon Austion, West Virginia
5'8", 174 lb., 30" arms, 9 1/8" hands
Bench: 14 reps
40: 4.34 seconds
Vertical: 32.0"
Broad Jump: 120.0"
20 Yard Shuttle: 4.01 seconds

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Old 03-05-2014, 10:15 PM   #121
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I think that after the combine and pro day that he had, someone is going to pull the trigger on Moncreif before he reaches our 3rd pick.
You're right. I'm actually hoping for the Chiefs to trade back and grab him.
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Old 03-06-2014, 07:21 AM   #122
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It is because it is still the use of sabermetrics to determine a player's value as opposed to the traditional items. It is just a better tool...but when you put more money into it works even better.

Many teams do it now which reduced the advantage the As had.
That type of statistical analysis is quite unique to baseball. I guess if it makes people feel better that they think Dorsey is doing something special, more power to them.

Me, I tend to look at things more realistically than that.
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Old 03-06-2014, 10:17 AM   #123
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That type of statistical analysis is quite unique to baseball. I guess if it makes people feel better that they think Dorsey is doing something special, more power to them.

Me, I tend to look at things more realistically than that.
Now this I agree with.

We all hope the GM has a system that works. My feeling is that he should stick to the system and the assigned values rather than over pay for any player.
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Old 03-06-2014, 01:19 PM   #124
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Beckham or Cooks... Call it a day.
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Old 03-06-2014, 10:15 PM   #125
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Old 03-08-2014, 10:03 PM   #126
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I calculated the "Speed Score" for this yrs WRs.

Quote:
Speed Score is Football Outsiders' metric for evaluating running back prospects. It's built on the simple idea that, because smaller backs tend to run faster than larger backs, we should be more impressed by a 4.5-second 40-yard dash from a 220-pound back than the same clock reading from a 170-pound back. As such, Speed Score incorporates a back's official time in the 40-yard dash with his weight to produce a measure of his speed given his size using the formula, (Weight * 200)/(40 time^4). As a guide, we consider a 100 Speed Score 100 as average, with anything below 80 serving as a giant red flag, and anything above 120 serving as a giant neon sign.
Kniles Davis had the best in last yrs draft, and I think that Dorsey relies heavily on metrics when drafting. His 2013 draft picks were all workout/combine warriors.

Notables:

Abbrederis 95.1
Beckham 102.8
Benjamin 106.3
Bryant 110.6
Coleman 104.1
Cooks 107.5
Enunwa 114.8
Evans M. 109.7
Evans Q. 103
Fowler 104
Janis 114.8
Mathews 107.2
Moncrief 117.9
Watkins 109.6
Wilson 105

current chiefs based on combine:
Bowe 106.8
Avery 99.7
Jenkins 104.2
Hemingway 111.7
McCluster 81.7

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Old 03-08-2014, 10:22 PM   #127
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http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/article...d-b286b23bbb55

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Ferrin: What is your overall evaluation of the entire 2014 NFL Draft Class?

Dorsey: "It’s another sign of the times, larger receivers, who will display the unique ability to have size and speed to play this game. We’ve always believed that size matters and I think this class is no different from the classes of the last couple years."
Size & Speed


Here is a list of the top 20 regular season WR of 2013 by receiving yrds:


only 4 are under 6' tall. I am sure Dorsey noticed that too.

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Old 03-09-2014, 12:27 AM   #128
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http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/article...d-b286b23bbb55



Size & Speed


Here is a list of the top 20 regular season WR of 2013 by receiving yrds:

only 4 are under 6' tall. I am sure Dorsey noticed that too.
Problem with the guys you listed. All are inconsistent and display poor hands a lot of the time. There have been tons of Height-Weight-Speed guys who failed in the league because they couldn't do one thing, catch the ball consistently.

That's why Ted Ginn isn't a great WR.

Donnie Avery is no better than a #3 WR.

DHB is no better than a #3-4 and is at best a decoy at this point of his career.

Stephen Hill has sucked.

And the list goes on and on. Lots of speed and size is great, but it doesn't matter if they can't catch consistently and use their size to dominate.

Unfortunately, from what I've seen of them. Janis, Bryant, Moncrief, and Enunwa all currently fall in the DHB, Avery, DHB, etc. category.

I love speed and size in a prospect as much or more than anybody else, but I still wouldn't draft the guys you listed any higher than the 3rd (Moncreif & Bryant) or later.
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Old 03-09-2014, 01:09 AM   #129
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Hemingway is a perfect example of why a "size/speed" metric isn't perfect. Yeah, the guy has very good size at 6'1", 230 lbs. and ran a 4.53 at the combine. He also has nice hands and runs good routes. However, you watch him on the field and he's got absolutely zero initial burst. Slow as shit.

It's why he's a great gunner on special teams as he can build up his speed and start moving over a longer field.

Avery and Jenkins are kind of like that too.

McCluster, while he ran a slower 40 time than Hemmingway, has much better initial quickness.

What you really want is a guy that has both. Beckham, Cooks, Watkins, Moncrief have that. (Personally, I think someone is going to get a real gem in Moncrief in this draft. Second round most likely, but I wouldn't be upset if he was the Chiefs first round pick.)
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Old 03-09-2014, 08:05 AM   #130
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Problem with the guys you listed. All are inconsistent and display poor hands a lot of the time.
I'll have to take your word on it. I havent researched enough to say conclusively.

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Originally Posted by OldSchool View Post
There have been tons of Height-Weight-Speed guys who failed in the league because they couldn't do one thing, catch the ball consistently.
in general there have been alot of guys who failed in the league.

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Originally Posted by OldSchool View Post
That's why Ted Ginn isn't a great WR.

Donnie Avery is no better than a #3 WR.

DHB is no better than a #3-4 and is at best a decoy at this point of his career.

Stephen Hill has sucked.
Dont think Ted Gin would have had a great speed score. Although he ran a forty at 4.38, he did it at only 178lbs. His 2013 drop % was 4.4

Avery has had a long career.

DHB was almost a 1k yr receiver in 2011. Although drops may be an issue for him, his real issue has been injuries. His 2013 drop % is 9.4

yes, stephen hill sucks.

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Originally Posted by Saccopoo View Post
Hemingway is a perfect example of why a "size/speed" metric isn't perfect. Yeah, the guy has very good size at 6'1", 230 lbs. and ran a 4.53 at the combine. He also has nice hands and runs good routes. However, you watch him on the field and he's got absolutely zero initial burst. Slow as shit.

It's why he's a great gunner on special teams as he can build up his speed and start moving over a longer field.
I agree with you, but I think that is something he can work on. His 10yrd split of 1.54 isnt bad (i.e. quick enough). He had a great 3-cone.

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Avery and Jenkins are kind of like that too.
I would agree about Jenkins, not Avery.

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McCluster, while he ran a slower 40 time than Hemmingway, has much better initial quickness.
agree.

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Originally Posted by Saccopoo View Post
What you really want is a guy that has both. Beckham, Cooks, Watkins, Moncrief have that. (Personally, I think someone is going to get a real gem in Moncrief in this draft. Second round most likely, but I wouldn't be upset if he was the Chiefs first round pick.)
Guys who have a high speed score tend to have a low 10yrd split as well, which is a good indicator of quickness. Below are more stats of the top 20 receivers (by receiving yrds) in 2013. The average speed score (without Decker and D. Thomas whose info was not available) is 105.9, and the median is 106.1Drop info was found from sportincharts. Midgets are in yellow, and those players without info are greyed out.


I just dont think its a coincidence that most of the top receivers in the NFL have great speed scores and are tall. That combo probably has a greater likelyhood of turning into a great NFL wr than someone who doesnt have that combo. I'm guessing its because the bigger WR can create vertical seperation. Since the speed score is a combo of weight and speed, those with great speed scores probably have the ability to get off the line of scrimmage (avoid jams) and the speed to seperate. Being "bigger" (weight and height) also helps in the physicality of the game (i.e. the smaller guys probably get beat up more , which leads to injuries, and thus lower stats).

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Old 03-09-2014, 09:14 AM   #131
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So, based on what dorsey has said (likes size/speed), his previous draft (workout warriors), draft rumours (chiefs raving about big wrs), and need to find a bowe replacement (he can be cut in 2015 for cap savings, and will be 31 at the start of the 2015 season):

1. he probably isnt interested in marquis lee (poor speed score, drop issues and injuries in 2013)

2. Cooks > Beckham

3. guys with a speed score over 105 (avg top 20 nfl wr) that he will look at that might be available when chiefs draft

Benjamin 106.3 (poor route runner, not quick, limited production)
Bryant 110.6 (inconsistent hands, 1354 yrds college career)
Cooks 107.5 (small, great everything else)
Enunwa 114.8 (1500 career yrds)
Janis 114.8 (inconsistent hands, great college production, small school)
Mathews 107.2 (great everything)
Moncrief 117.9 (great everything)

I would bet at least 1 of these 4 [enunwa, janis, mathews, moncrief) are chiefs....if the chiefs draft a wr.

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Old 03-09-2014, 09:15 AM   #132
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Beckham or Cooks... Call it a day.
This right here and I prefer Cooks based on this on the gauntlet drill at the combine. Notice how Beckham slows down and Cooks never down shifts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNoPvnCUNZM

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Old 03-09-2014, 09:18 AM   #133
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Brandin Cooks set several combine records for quickness at 190 lbs. (meaning hes timing quicker than the midget 170 guys like Mccluster, Tavon Austin, Dri Archer) and he's doing at 20 + pounds heavier.

Freak of nature + I think the first or second best WR stats in NCAA? print please
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Old 03-09-2014, 10:59 AM   #134
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I just dont think its a coincidence that most of the top receivers in the NFL have great speed scores and are tall. That combo probably has a greater likelyhood of turning into a great NFL wr than someone who doesnt have that combo. I'm guessing its because the bigger WR can create vertical seperation. Since the speed score is a combo of weight and speed, those with great speed scores probably have the ability to get off the line of scrimmage (avoid jams) and the speed to seperate. Being "bigger" (weight and height) also helps in the physicality of the game (i.e. the smaller guys probably get beat up more , which leads to injuries, and thus lower stats).
And I think that this is where a guy like Beckham is the outlier against the "taller receiver" trend.

While "only" 5'11", he has close to 33" arms and 10" hands (giving him a catch radius of a player that is 6'5") along with an exceptional burst ability shown by his vertical of 38.5", a broad jump of 10'2" and his superb shuttle times of 3.94 seconds and 6.69 seconds in the 20 and 60 yard shuttles respectively.

His official 10 yard split in the 40 was 1.50 as well.

Add to that that he's exceptionally smooth and controlled on his routes, nails his breaks and has hands like vice grips as evidenced by:



It's why I've felt that he's the best receiver in this draft for a long time now. I feel that Odell Beckham has every single physical tool that a player needs to be a dominant #1 NFL wide receiver.

Right now, I'm having a hard time seeing him last past either the Jets or Baltimore, but if he does and he's there for the Chiefs at #23, the card would be at the podium before the commissioner is done announcing who's on the clock.
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Old 03-09-2014, 11:10 AM   #135
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Who are the WR's that will available in the 3rd or 4th rounds?
I think we take DL/Pass Rusher with our first pick. Then with our 3rd and 4th rounds I feel like we will take OL and WR. Depending on who is there and so on.
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