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Old 05-21-2012, 10:43 PM  
Fish Fish is offline
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Science is Cool....

This is a repository for all cool scientific discussion and fascination. Scientific facts, theories, and overall cool scientific stuff that you'd like to share with others. Stuff that makes you smile and wonder at the amazing shit going on around us, that most people don't notice.

Post pictures, vidoes, stories, or links. Ask questions. Share science.

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Old 03-11-2014, 08:19 AM   #1666
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I finally pulled it off the DVR last night and they did a great job of polishing NDT. He's super awkward on talk shows but having a script seems to straighten him out.

My wife could care less about science and was playing on her iPad while I watched it. She was drawn to the calendar analogy and I could tell that her mind was totally blown.
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Old 03-11-2014, 09:48 AM   #1667
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Originally Posted by aturnis View Post
They don't like that religion looks stupid on the whole equation.
I don't mind if the content is at odds with religion, what's irksome is that they have to tell us that time after time. Let people realize it on their own, it might even be a more powerful message. If you are educating us on science, do that. And if it changes our world view on other things, let us figure that out, Don't preach about non-science in a science education show.

It's kind of like saying 'here's a great documentary to tell you all about the legendary 1969 SB champion Chiefs. . . . Al Davis was such a dick, let me detail how much of a dick he was, the end.'
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Old 03-11-2014, 02:57 PM   #1668
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I tend to disagree. Informing people as to how stifling to our civilization religion has been and can be is very important. Otherwise they might just teach creationism in schools, or that the earth is only 6000yrs old and Jesus used to ride raptors.

Where could we be right now as a civilization if religion never oppressed knowledge?
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Old 03-11-2014, 03:13 PM   #1669
Baby Lee Baby Lee is offline
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Originally Posted by aturnis View Post
I tend to disagree. Informing people as to how stifling to our civilization religion has been and can be is very important. Otherwise they might just teach creationism in schools, or that the earth is only 6000yrs old and Jesus used to ride raptors.

Where could we be right now as a civilization if religion never oppressed knowledge?
Do it somewhere else. Educating on science is it's own activity. Educating on the social history of religion is it's own as well.

None of my EE classes discussed religion, ever. Guess what, I learned a lot about science.
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Old 03-11-2014, 03:33 PM   #1670
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I find it weird at the consternation exhibited by Baby Lee and AustinChief in regards to Giordano Bruno's portrayal in the series.

It is true, that Giordano was put to death for his heretical religious views. But it would only be heretical religious views that would rise to the level of requiring a death penalty.

It has been brought up many times that the hierarchy of Understanding at that time put Theology at the top with then philosophy, law and toward the bottom was natural science and mathematics. Only when these lower fields of understanding came in direct conflict with theology did there rise cause to consider the death penalty. And because they were thought as derivative to understanding their weight in argument was not considered prominent.

Giordano's ideas that included heretical views on the Trinity and such, grew directly from his extension of his Naturalistic View of existence. He rejected a supernatural explanation.

And it only makes sense for the times that the Religious results of his philosophy should be the basis of his receiving the death penalty. It is clear that the whole of his ideas were on trial as far as he was concerned. It was just that the Church drew a death penalty from the authority of highest reasoning in Religion in order to justify such sentence. You wouldn't do so for some petty Natural Science idea.
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Old 03-11-2014, 03:44 PM   #1671
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Originally Posted by tiptap View Post
I find it weird at the consternation exhibited by Baby Lee and AustinChief in regards to Giordano Bruno's portrayal in the series.

It is true, that Giordano was put to death for his heretical religious views. But it would only be heretical religious views that would rise to the level of requiring a death penalty.

It has been brought up many times that the hierarchy of Understanding at that time put Theology at the top with then philosophy, law and toward the bottom was natural science and mathematics. Only when these lower fields of understanding came in direct conflict with theology did there rise cause to consider the death penalty. And because they were thought as derivative to understanding their weight in argument was not considered prominent.

Giordano's ideas that included heretical views on the Trinity and such, grew directly from his extension of his Naturalistic View of existence. He rejected a supernatural explanation.

And it only makes sense for the times that the Religious results of his philosophy should be the basis of his receiving the death penalty. It is clear that the whole of his ideas were on trial as far as he was concerned. It was just that the Church drew a death penalty from the authority of highest reasoning in Religion in order to justify such sentence. You wouldn't do so for some petty Natural Science idea.
NDT himself spent several minutes Monday night arguing with Colbert that science is facts, they're cut and dried, you test them and test them and they reliably respond to your trials, then they're established as immutable. He got very animated about that point.

I find it weird that he'd devote so much time to an INTERPRETATION of history, a wrong one at that, if he wanted to teach science.

It's like starting a series on the nuts and bolts of the game of football, training, plays, schemes, throwing motion, velocity, etc., like ESPN's The Science of Football. Then sitting around railing on the NFL exemption, salary caps, costly concessions and parking, etc.
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Old 03-11-2014, 03:54 PM   #1672
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It wasn't wrong interpretation of History. I repeat it was the Naturalistic Philosophy that was placed as the authority by Giordano as opposed to Theological Arguments. That reflects the modern scientific success and position in discovering understanding as opposed to Revelation. It is at the center of the disagreement between faith and science.
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Old 03-11-2014, 03:57 PM   #1673
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiptap View Post
It wasn't wrong interpretation of History. I repeat it was the Naturalistic Philosophy that was placed as the authority by Giordano as opposed to Theological Arguments. That reflects the modern scientific success and position in discovering understanding as opposed to Revelation. It is at the center of the disagreement between faith and science.
I want to watch a science show, not a discussion of the disagreement between faith and science.

You do realize that's possible?

I don't watch Enter The Dragon to see a Twilight romance.

As for the detractors, you might open more minds by presenting the science alone than you would presenting the science then muttering 'but your religion keeps ****ing all this interesting shit up.'

At it's base, NDT is not being a scientist right now, he's being a social activist.
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Old 03-11-2014, 04:01 PM   #1674
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That is why you took your EE class or physics or whatever. This show is not that end at all.
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Old 03-11-2014, 04:02 PM   #1675
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiptap View Post
I find it weird at the consternation exhibited by Baby Lee and AustinChief in regards to Giordano Bruno's portrayal in the series.

It is true, that Giordano was put to death for his heretical religious views. But it would only be heretical religious views that would rise to the level of requiring a death penalty.

It has been brought up many times that the hierarchy of Understanding at that time put Theology at the top with then philosophy, law and toward the bottom was natural science and mathematics. Only when these lower fields of understanding came in direct conflict with theology did there rise cause to consider the death penalty. And because they were thought as derivative to understanding their weight in argument was not considered prominent.

Giordano's ideas that included heretical views on the Trinity and such, grew directly from his extension of his Naturalistic View of existence. He rejected a supernatural explanation.

And it only makes sense for the times that the Religious results of his philosophy should be the basis of his receiving the death penalty. It is clear that the whole of his ideas were on trial as far as he was concerned. It was just that the Church drew a death penalty from the authority of highest reasoning in Religion in order to justify such sentence. You wouldn't do so for some petty Natural Science idea.
I bolded the part which exposes your ignorance on this subject. EVERYTHING for Bruno was rooted in the supernatural. The idea that he was a scientist at all is a joke... which makes it even more puzzling as to why they put him in the show at all. There were other ACTUAL scientists at the time that were advancing our understanding of the universe not writing multiple books on MAGIC.

I notice you also ignore the fact that they lied in representing the nature of his life not just his death. There is NO PLACE whatsoever in a show about science for what amounts to needless propaganda.

I recommend that before you reply you actually do some research on Bruno then go back and watch Cosmos and tell me with a straight face that it wasn't ridiculous.

I'll help you out and get you started

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/ou...ck-wrong-hero/
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Old 03-11-2014, 04:06 PM   #1676
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Originally Posted by tiptap View Post
It wasn't wrong interpretation of History. I repeat it was the Naturalistic Philosophy that was placed as the authority by Giordano as opposed to Theological Arguments. That reflects the modern scientific success and position in discovering understanding as opposed to Revelation. It is at the center of the disagreement between faith and science.
Except you are dead wrong on this. You are ascribing attributes to Bruno that simply are NOT true. It's a compelling fantasy .. it certainly sounds good... unfortunately it is still fantasy.
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Old 03-11-2014, 04:08 PM   #1677
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That is why you took your EE class or physics or whatever. This show is not that end at all.
No, it's to show kids shiny pictures about the universe while they convince them religion is bad.
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Old 03-11-2014, 04:12 PM   #1678
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I am not an expert on the writings of Giordano, but I don't see a guy who insists that our sun and planets are not unique, that atoms make up existence and the naturalistic observations were infinite and universal as being supernatural in form that would be the central Christian view at the time with man being the center of created existence.

I am sure there could be elements that could be said to be supernatural like having god present everywhere equally in the universe. But that is much more consistent with a uniform understanding that can be discovered than a revealed religious edicts with unique properties put forth as true knowledge.
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Old 03-11-2014, 04:22 PM   #1679
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No, it's to show kids shiny pictures about the universe while they convince them religion is bad.

Well understanding how science works starts with looking to Naturalistic Laws to develop understanding and not revealed truth. Revealed truth at the times was bad for it held its truth was unassailable. Modern Science can be changed with new findings and expansion of understanding.

So if you are doing science, instead of just reading science, you do try to put your prejudices about the absolutes aside in coming to an understanding.

As far as the facts of science those ideas come later in the series but it is to be understood the release of science was the embracing of a uniform explanation that can be discovered.
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Old 03-11-2014, 04:28 PM   #1680
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Well understanding how science works starts with looking to Naturalistic Laws to develop understanding and not revealed truth. Revealed truth at the times was bad for it held its truth was unassailable. Modern Science can be changed with new findings and expansion of understanding.

So if you are doing science, instead of just reading science, you do try to put your prejudices about the absolutes aside in coming to an understanding.

As far as the facts of science those ideas come later in the series but it is to be understood the release of science was the embracing of a uniform explanation that can be discovered.
You've obviously been paying absolutely no attention to NDT in the media and on the internet since the show aired.

I should probably clarify that on Sunday, it was an eyeroll. But after seeing his media offensive the past two days, I'm saddened that he is clearly aiming to be a social activist instead of a scientist.
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