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Old 04-04-2014, 05:25 PM  
RedNeckRaider RedNeckRaider is offline
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Free will

Out of curiosity I posted a reply in the Ft Hood thread. I was just fishing and sure enough I had a small bite for a big question. "you're not going to bring god into this are you???" Religion makes intelligent people say the silliest things IMO I simply responded it must be that free will thing we keep getting punished for because that is the catch all for evil allowing people to give their gods a pass for ignoring life's tragedies. As Sam Harris put it " either your god doesn't have the ability to intervene or he chooses not to or he is imaginary. Choose wisely" Explaining god is impotent, evil or doesn't exist.

20,000+ children die everyday in tragic ways. Horrible random events lead innocent people dying everyday. However in religious discussions free will is handed out as a supposedly reasonable explanation. When you apply basic logic it falls completely apart. Strangely when you mention this outside of the "how dare you question my faith conversation" suddenly you are out of bounds. Harris makes some interesting points on this subject in the attached video~


http://youtu.be/pCofmZlC72g

Last edited by RedNeckRaider; 04-04-2014 at 07:48 PM..
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Old 04-05-2014, 08:48 AM   #46
RedNeckRaider RedNeckRaider is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLAG View Post
Free will:

This is What separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom

Because of our intellect, we are able to choose what we do with our base passions - food / sex / etc..

Man can go on hunger strike to make a point, where as a Dog would never do such a thing.

I don't see why the discussion of kids with leukemia comes into play in this discussion - that topic is titled "Why do bad things happen to good people"
The title is free will because that is the reason offered by many for why bad things happen to good people. There is no need to change the title. I am not sure why you would be confused~
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Old 04-05-2014, 09:19 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainiac View Post
Even just one verifiable modern miracle would be nice, for lots of reasons.
Curing a retarded person or an amputee would go a long way with me personally.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris616 View Post
High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
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Old 04-05-2014, 09:22 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RNR View Post
The title is free will because that is the reason offered by many for why bad things happen to good people. There is no need to change the title. I am not sure why you would be confused~
Because there is absolutely no answer that makes a lick of sense. It has to be tough on a believer to contemplate and respond. I for one would love to hear a satisfying answer.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris616 View Post
High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
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Old 04-05-2014, 09:58 AM   #49
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Originally Posted by Brainiac View Post
Sounds like a copout to me. How long would it actually take to post a short response to a simple question?
Seriously, a short response can lead to more being demanded or required. These religion debates here get long and involved. Quit calling out such a choice as a cop out and being overly judgmental by enforcing communication. Maybe the poster preferred a one-on-one with someone they know personally. Choosing not to speak at a certain time, or at all, is a corollary to free speech.
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Old 04-05-2014, 10:02 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by RNR View Post
The title is free will because that is the reason offered by many for why bad things happen to good people. There is no need to change the title. I am not sure why you would be confused~
To my knowledge that is not considered a case of "free will" --at least in the Judeo-Christian tradition. It's about choosing to right or wrong. The other events are Acts of God. They're even called that in contracts.
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Old 04-05-2014, 10:28 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Seriously, a short response can lead to more being demanded or required. These religion debates here get long and involved. Quit calling out such a choice as a cop out and being overly judgmental by enforcing communication. Maybe the poster preferred a one-on-one with someone they know personally. Choosing not to speak at a certain time, or at all, is a corollary to free speech.
If someone chooses to take a position on an Internet forum and then refuses to back it up by saying "Sorry, I don't have time to offer any evidence to support my position", one has to wonder why they bothered to express the opinion in the first place. They're just wasting everybody's time, including their own precious time.

Or, it's just a cop out. Take your choice.
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Old 04-05-2014, 09:06 PM   #52
RedNeckRaider RedNeckRaider is offline
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I guess the issue I have the hardest time grasping is the incredible rationalization required to simply accept the daily tragic events that happen in the world. People who like myself who live fairly comfortable lives. We enjoy nice homes, clean living conditions, food medical treatment when needed. We have nice things and chat on the internet.

Countless fellow humans live horrible lives suffering while trying to survive and numerous lose this battle every single day. Events happen that create total devastation to thousands time and time again. Yet people often just dismiss this to original sin and free will. The term god works in mysterious ways is another common disclaimer. I do not understand this thought process and frankly view it as self indulgent and self serving~
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Old 04-05-2014, 10:46 PM   #53
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Really it's the problem of evil and why it exists. Sam Harris put it so succinctly I see no purpose in repeating it. It's a truly a gut shot the faithful can only choose to ignore. Any introspection of the question can truly cause their religious construct to collapse.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris616 View Post
High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
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Old 04-05-2014, 10:48 PM   #54
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Of course if you think about how the world would be if there was no god, you would have the world behaving in exactly the way it does.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris616 View Post
High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
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Old 04-05-2014, 11:48 PM   #55
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"small bite"... **** you old man, you just wanted a chance to talk shit on people who believe in God and I didn't take the bait.

Now I have, so good on you, I guess.

You don't believe and never will, same as someone like a Dave Lane or Fish, but just like a Dave Lane you cant wait to flaunt your supposed intellectual superiority over those who don't share your views.

I haven't directly "preached" to any of you guys because I know what a waste of time it will be, but for some reason you chose my totally NON religious post that night to make your stand/statement... so go ahead and ****ing make it, you haven't bested, trapped nor otherwise cornered me into anything, period.

I simply refuse to talk to someone with a mind that's already clearly made up... take your "free will" and do what you will, we'll all find out whats what in the end.

"Small Bite"... you're a bloated, egotistical, self important, not NEARLY as smart as you want to seem old man... now go use another big word against me that you just seen yesterday.
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Old 04-06-2014, 12:13 AM   #56
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I may have overreacted a bit in hindsight, but not a lot, your statement to me that night really pissed me off RNR and I felt like a champ for ignoring it... but then its brought up again several nights later with words like "small" attached, add that into a few drinks and you get angry words.

In other words leave me or my old, benign quotes out of this new tirade against religion... I avoided confrontation in the heat of the moment once, twice is too much, I'm still weak in the flesh.

So sorry for the names and ugliness, but just leave me out of your God hatred, despisement, disbelievement... whatever you call it, leave me out of it and I wont address you on the subject.
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Old 04-06-2014, 12:53 AM   #57
RedNeckRaider RedNeckRaider is offline
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Originally Posted by scott free View Post
I may have overreacted a bit in hindsight, but not a lot, your statement to me that night really pissed me off RNR and I felt like a champ for ignoring it... but then its brought up again several nights later with words like "small" attached, add that into a few drinks and you get angry words.

In other words leave me or my old, benign quotes out of this new tirade against religion... I avoided confrontation in the heat of the moment once, twice is too much, I'm still weak in the flesh.

So sorry for the names and ugliness, but just leave me out of your God hatred, despisement, disbelievement... whatever you call it, leave me out of it and I wont address you on the subject.
I never mentioned your name and nobody had a clue who I was referring to until these last two pathetic posts idiot. You talk mighty tough on the internet scooter~
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Old 04-06-2014, 12:58 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
Really it's the problem of evil and why it exists. Sam Harris put it so succinctly I see no purpose in repeating it. It's a truly a gut shot the faithful can only choose to ignore. Any introspection of the question can truly cause their religious construct to collapse.
Look at the last two silly internet tough guy responses and it sums up the frustration defending this nonsense~
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Old 04-06-2014, 01:10 AM   #59
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I never mentioned your name and nobody had a clue who I was referring to until these last two pathetic posts idiot. You talk mighty tough on the internet scooter~
Doesn't matter what anyone else read, you know good and well who you were talking about and so did I, if anyone is pathetic its you for dragging me into this over a totally non religious post

I talk tough anywhere I go, Brutus, your tough guy act is tired as hell quite frankly, if you think I'm the guy to make your funny little point on then you're seriously misinformed... I've lived real life, I don't just talk about it.

You called me out the other night in that post, totally out of the blue, so **** you... c'mon man, gimme some more badass talk and cheeser smilies! You drug me into it so drag me out of it tough guy, make sure to include plenty of these

Drag me into your shit without provocation and we can trade barbs all night long, fact is I'm tired of your badass routine here, save all those big words you like to occasionally like to throw out for someone who actually believes you didn't just learn them yesterday.
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Old 04-06-2014, 01:23 AM   #60
RedNeckRaider RedNeckRaider is offline
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Originally Posted by scott free View Post
Doesn't matter what anyone else read, you know good and well who you were talking about and so did I, if anyone is pathetic its you for dragging me into this over a totally non religious post

I talk tough anywhere I go, Brutus, your tough guy act is tired as hell quite frankly, if you think I'm the guy to make your funny little point on then you're seriously misinformed... I've lived real life, I don't just talk about it.

You called me out the other night in that post, totally out of the blue, so **** you... c'mon man, gimme some more badass talk and cheeser smilies! You drug me into it so drag me out of it tough guy, make sure to include plenty of these

Drag me into your shit without provocation and we can trade barbs all night long, fact is I'm tired of your badass routine here, save all those big words you like to occasionally like to throw out for someone who actually believes you didn't just learn them yesterday.
Lots of booze courage from you tonight scooter **** off and get some sleep~
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