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Old 04-12-2014, 02:14 PM  
Saccopoo Saccopoo is offline
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3 Guys who could/should be the Chiefs pick at #23

If the 2013 Draft is any indication of John Dorsey's preferences in the process, I think that there might be a surprise or two in the 2014 draft for the Chiefs, especially in the first round.

Dorsey doesn't seem to really care about the draftnik's and their "big board" ratings, as evidence by the selections of Knile Davis in the third, Eric Kush in the sixth and Mike Catapano in the seventh.

The guy takes football players, particularly ones who have high level athletic potential (Fisher, Davis, Commings and Catapano all had excellent combine and/or pro day results).

So, with the initial base of what Dorsey likes in a prospect, here are my top guys for the Chiefs with the #23 pick:

1. Kyle Van Noy, LB; BYU
6'3 1/2", 243 lb.
Arms: 31 5/8"
Hands: 9 5/8"
40: 4.71
Vertical: 32.5:
Broad: 112"

- Exceptionally fluid and smooth. Has superb burst and acceleration on the field and will explode into the ball carrier or quarterback. Very instinctive with terrific flow and can easily find and exploit gaps as a play progresses. Plays sideline to sideline. Drops back into coverage extremely well and has very good feet and hips to turn and cover backs, tight ends and bigger receivers. The most complete linebacker in this draft and would be able to play inside and outside in any scheme as a four down player. (He lined up inside and outside for BYU as well as excelled on special teams as well for the Cougars, routinely blocking punts and kicks.) His tackling is absolutely textbook as he wraps up completely as well as going after the ball. A very solid citizen and the undisputed team leader for the Cougars. Very vocal and supportive.

For his career, he has 61.5 tackles for loss, 26 sacks, 11 forced fumbles, 7 interceptions and 21 passes defensed. The dude can flat out play all over the field.

Personally, I think that if he's available at #25, the Chargers take him, and I really don't want to play against this guy for the next decade.

Quote:
Has a muscular, well-proportioned build. Quick get-off. Knifes gaps. Good pass-rush ability -- can push the pocket or pressure the edge. Keeps working to the quarterback and has deceptive closing speed. Eyes the quarterback and tries to get his hands in the passing lane. Athletic with good movement skills in all directions -- equipped to keep pace with backs and tight ends in coverage. Is rangy and can open up his stride and run vertical. Glides on the field. Scheme versatile. Football smart. - NFL.com
Quote:
•A very fluid athlete, which is hardly surprising when you look at his history. However turning to run in coverage was about as fluid as I've seen from a linebacker. Flips the hips well, and has a good break on the football in coverage.
•Active hands. It's unusual to have two positives to start based on coverage, but he really does do a nice job of getting his hands in-between the football and the receiver.
•Good change of direction. Really plants that foot and explodes either in pass coverage or in run support.
•Excellent awareness. Really has a feel for the game and takes good angles and barely every takes the incorrect first step.
•Leader: Showed a lot of character to battle through some injuries in 2013, and was seen as the defensive leader on the field, very vocal and willing to do the dirty work.
•Shows a nice array of pass rushing moves, has enough speed to trouble the edge but also mixes in some moves to keep offensive lineman off balance.
•Works through traffic well and just seems to disengage at the exact moment he should to make the tackle. Which comes down to having a good feel for the game. - SBNation


Watch this shit and tell me you don't get goosebumps thinking about this guy in red lining up next to DJ:



2. Donte Moncrief, WR; Mississippi:
6'2 3/8", 221 lb.
Arms: 32 3/8"
Hands: 9 1/8"
40: 4.40
Vertical: 39.5"
Broad: 132"

A faster, more explosive version of Dwayne Bowe that runs better routes. Moncrief has every single tool that you want from a potential high level #1 NFL wide receiver - size, speed, route running, vertical, explosiveness. People (aka Draftniks) aren't giving Moncrief the attention he deserves, which is legitimate first round consideration. In fact, I don't think that there is a receiver in this draft that has the entire package that's possessed by Moncrief. He's got the speed and vertical of Odell Beckham, the ability to separate of Watkins, the size of Evans, the route running of Cooks...the dude is the complete package and his upside is absolutely enormous.

Quote:
Terrific size. Smooth accelerator -- jets off the line, eliminates cushion and has speed to stretch the field vertically. Good balance and body control. Can stem his pattern and leverage defenders. Drives off cornerbacks and creates separation. Knows where the sticks are. Outstanding leaping ability to elevate and pluck throws out of the air. Flashes playmaking ability. Able to sidestep the first tackler and pick up chunk yards after the catch. Gives effort as a blocker to engage and seal. Has experience going head-to-head with NFL-caliber cornerbacks. Will be a 21-year-old rookie and has upside. - NFL.com
Quote:
Moncrief's thick frame, deceptive speed and smooth route-running make him a nightmare for cornerbacks. He does not possess the explosive moves of Southern Cal's Marqise Lee or Clemson's Sammy Watkins but might be a better player than either of them. He is sudden in his breaks, showing the ability to generate separation even against tight man coverage, and accelerates quickly, often leaving defenders in his dust on double-moves. Moncrief tracks the ball well and generally shows excellent hands (one drop vs. Texas), as well as the body control to make the dazzling grab. Moncrief is also cognizant in the running game, showing awareness and toughness as a downfield blocker

Perhaps the only thing standing in Moncrief's way of becoming the first "skill-position" player from Mississippi to earn a first round draft selection since Eli Manning (No. 1 overall, 2004) is the question about his straight-line speed. - CBSsports.com
(Timed an official 4.40 in the 40 at the Combine. Question session officially and emphatically over at that point.)





3. Gabe Jackson, OL; Mississippi State
6'3 1/2", 336 lb.
Arms: 33 3/4"
Hands: 10"
40: Who gives a shit when you can move mountains?
Vertical: Does anyone care what Godzilla's vertical is? Oh, hells no, because when you are destroying worlds, it don't matter how high you can jump.
Broad: Yeah, he's broad. Broad as a ****ing duplex.

- Gabe Jackson is the best interior offensive line prospect in this draft. He was a four time SEC OL Player of the Week in 2013 as he just manhandled everyone who had the misfortune of lining up against him. Brutally strong with absolute tree trunks for legs, he's able to drive block even the biggest defensive linemen with ease. There were points in this season during games where guys would actually run away from him. Jackson plays really, really mean and looks to absolutely bury guys into the ground. Two time team captain. Has the potential for being a perennial All-Pro in Reid's power man blocking scheme. Jackson would rectify a lot in terms of the effectiveness of the Chiefs red zone offense.

I think he's a better version of the Detroit Lions' Larry Warford and the Broncos will seriously consider Jackson at #31 as they'll want someone capable of controlling guys like Dontari Poe.

Quote:
Excellent size with long arms and a thick lower body. Fundamentally sound with advanced technique. Quick out of his stance. Good anchor. Strong, efficient punch (can pop and recoil). Keeps his hands inside and controls defenders. Mirrors in pass protection. Walls off running lanes. Understands positioning and angles. Athletic enough to short pull effectively -- nice balance and body control for a big man. Good eyes, awareness and reactions. Smart and tough. Durable four-year starter and two-time captain. Professional makeup. - NFL.com
Quote:
Demonstrates not only the raw power expected of a man of his size but also surprisingly nimble feet and balance while in pass protection, to mirror quick rushers. Jackson plays with excellent knee bend and has long arms, which help him stay square and in control of his opponent in pass pro. He's a powerful drive blocker who uses his natural leverage advantage well, showing good leg drive to push defenders off the ball. Despite his girth, Jackson shows good lateral agility and balance to find fits at the second level. Defenders are seldom able to disengage once Jackson locks in. Is not satisfied with simply occupying space, and prides himself on pancaking and rag-doll'ing opponents. Does a nice job of absorbing the bull rush with his lower half, and rarely surrenders more than a step or two before resetting and anchoring. Comes off the snap quickly and gets up to speed quickly when asked to pull. - CBSsport.com


Highlights are silly with Jackson. Entire games are highlights for him:


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Old 04-12-2014, 02:21 PM   #2
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Oh Jeez, Kyle Van Noy and Gabe Jackson.

I'm shocked!
Shocked, I say!
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Old 04-12-2014, 02:26 PM   #3
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We should consolidate all of Sacc's threads about his annual favorite prospects into one megathread.
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Old 04-12-2014, 02:36 PM   #4
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Kyle Van Noy?!

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Old 04-12-2014, 02:36 PM   #5
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Also, I would add Jimmie Ward to this list. The guy is an all around badass who is good at everything.

In fact, I think Green Bay might pick him ahead of us.
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Old 04-12-2014, 03:27 PM   #6
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Old 04-12-2014, 03:32 PM   #7
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A long-winded response to Sac...

1. Kyle Van Noy - LB - BYU

Where he fits for KC: WILB

Van Noy does not possess the requisite girth nor strength to line up as an OLB in an NFL 3-4 defense, even if he does have nice quickness and college production on the outside.

You look at a player like Justin Houston, who you'd consider a prototype at the position and you see a few things stand out that Van Noy simply does not have. First is that girth. Houston, also 6'3" weighed in 27 pounds heavier at 270. Next up is hands. Houston had monstrous hands at 10-7/8" that allow him to grab and redirect defensive lineman, whereas Van Noy has smaller hands at 9-5/8". When it comes to what is, essentially, a defensive lineman, hand size does matter. One thing Houston didn't have, that Van Noy does, is incredible arm length, which will benefit Van Noy in disengaging from blockers. Where Van Noy lacks though is both upper body and lower body strength. Van Noy has modest upper body strength, whereas Houston has the strength of a defensive lineman. Lower body explosion matters more to me, and while Van Noy has quick twitch athleticism which makes him look "explosive," he isn't going to be able to explode through offensive lineman the way Houston can due to lack of leg strength. Houston put up a 36.5" vertical and 125" broad jump despite weighing 270 pounds. Van Noy put up a 32.5" vertical and 112" broad jump and 243 pounds. The differences are noticeable. Van Noy is a run around, not run through type of linebacker. He's not going to be your stack and shed edge defender, nor does he look to be your strong side backer against the run.

Why I really like Van Noy is the fact that he covers ground quickly and smoothly. He can get from point A to point B in a hurry and he doesn't make mistakes when he gets there. He's a reliable, almost textbook, tackler. He is also very good in coverage, and he can be used reliably in blitzes. He's a guy that you'd draft to take over for Derrick Johnson, and that might not be a bad pick. He's the only LB prospect I truly like a bunch when it comes to fitting on the inside of KC's defense. I also like the fact that he can become very useful in the plethora of sub-packages KC likes to run. I think you can bring him off the edge in sub-packages as a blitzer, but you don't want him taking over for Hali on any kind of regular basis. He's a good player. I feel he has a mid-first to early second round grade. I can't envision him falling outside of the top 10 picks of round 2.

All of this said about Van Noy, I do believe that there are better places to spend that 1st round pick but I wouldn't be too ticked if KC felt he was the best player on their board at that point.

2. Donte Moncrief - WR - Ole Miss.

Where he fits for KC: X or Z receiver

I'll prefice this by saying I really like this kid as a WR. I actually agree with Sac on him being in the conversation for KC at #23.

What I don't like about Moncrief is a very short list, his hands and his ability to high-point the football. I'm not saying he doesn't have good enough hands or that he doesn't high-point, but he is not developed enough yet in those areas.

The one thing you cannot fix is the fact that his hands are on the smaller side for a receiver. His hands are big enough at 9-1/8", but he sure isn't going to wow anyone with barely big enough hands for an NFL wideout when it comes to projecting success. As a result, he sometimes traps balls against his body, and it shows up plenty on tape. That isn't a problem for me so long as those passes aren't dropped. What you see in the NFL, that he didn't see in college as much, are defenders closing on that ball/player much faster. When NFL players get there, they hit harder and they try to jar that ball loose. If he isn't plucking and securing the ball, he may end up having more than a few bounce off his shoulder pads. I think he needs more work in this area with a position coach, because he has shown he can catch the ball away from his frame.

I think we've all seen that Moncrief can contort his body and go up and get a ball, but there are times where he waits for the ball to fall into his basket rather than going up and high pointing the ball and securing the catch. This is going to lead to defensive backs getting their hands on balls and disrupting passes in the NFL. He has to learn to turn and grab a ball more often. This is another instance of him needing more coaching and more experience.

Overall, I think what we are looking at is a player that very well could have gone in the top 5 picks in the 2015 draft if he stayed in school, but you could get a phenomenal talent that needs some development by taking him this year. He's a guy, like Van Noy, that I have rated in the mid-first to early second round.

I really like Moncrief's size, his ability to control his body, and his quickness, long speed, and route running. I think he's got a high ceiling and could become one of the better receivers in the game within a few years. I'd have no problem with this pick if KC took him at #23 and would far prefer him to Van Noy in that spot.

3. Gabe Jackson - OG - Mississippi State

Where he fits for KC: RG

What I don't like about Jackson is his movement pulling and his ability to climb the ladder and get up to linebackers. I think these two items really affect where a team asks him to play and how they have to handle their other guard position. Jackson struggles to pull, unless he's doing a short pull on a trap or something similar. He doesn't move fast enough and NFL RBs aren't going to be patient enough to wait for him to get out of the way. I'd be concerned, even on traps, that he can slide fast enough to keep NFL calibur defensive ends from crashing down on the backs. I also haven't seen him move well in getting to the second level. I think he is limited outside of his box. I think he can make short area plays on the Mike, but I wouldn't ask him to slide out and get a weak side backer.

Onto the goods... Jackson is built like a flippin' bulldozer. I mean this guy is immovable, for the most part. Like Sac said, he's got 336 pounds sitting on tree trunks. He's got huge hands, he can grab and hang on. He holds his ground very well. You aren't going to get around him to make plays in the backfield very often. This is where Jackson is valuable. He isn't the guy you're going to ask to blow people downfield, he doesn't do it. He isn't a guy you're going to pull out in space to be a lead blocker for your back, he can't. What you will get is a guy that is going to handle big nose tackles and keep pass rushers away from your quarterback. He'll be most effective as a strong side player, and that is going to be fine with most NFL teams.

He isn't going to fit into a zone blocking scheme overly well, where the guards are asked to move a little more, but he could. He can slide and seal very well.

Overall, I have a 2nd to 3rd round grade on Jackson. I don't think he has enough movement skills for me to put a 1st round grade on him. If I'm taking a guard in round 1, I want a guy that I can do anything with. That is, I can pull him out in space, I can send him out after linebackers, all of that. Jackson isn't that guy.

Overall, if Jackson fell deeper into round 2 or into round 3, I'd advocate KC making a move to go up and get him. I happen to like a guy like Trai Turner more though because he can move really well. I would be pissed if KC took Jackson in round 1.
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Old 04-12-2014, 03:33 PM   #8
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I would take Brandin Cooks over all three.

Beckham, too, but Cooks actually stands a chance of being there.
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Old 04-12-2014, 03:37 PM   #9
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I agree with kccrow on all three players.
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Old 04-12-2014, 03:44 PM   #10
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I look at the production that Brandin Cooks had in a pro style offense, I see the incredible dedication he takes to route running, and I see all the huge plays he created because of his speed and ability, and I can't think of any other player that would be higher on my want list with our pick.

I like him so much I believe he's worth trading UP to go get. And that's even considering our lack of a 2nd rounder. Don't care. He's that good. Trade away of of next year's picks. If it gets us Cooks, I'm good with that.

If he gets taken before we can go get him, I'd be fine with Van Noy or Moncrief. I'd also be fine trading down and picking up an extra late 2nd or 3rd to get Gabe Jackson.

No OL in the 1st. Or else AIDS.
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Old 04-12-2014, 04:26 PM   #11
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Also, I would add Jimmie Ward to this list. The guy is an all around badass who is good at everything.

In fact, I think Green Bay might pick him ahead of us.
I don't know man...

I think that they drafted him last year. I don't know if they spend another high rounder on the same guy.

He seems to be instinctive with very good athleticism. Small, but I don't think that's a big deal as a back half guy in Sutton's defense.

Also, the Chiefs picked up and signed S Jerron McMillian (5'11", 205 lb.) recently this off-season to a one year deal, who was a fourth round pick in 2012 with the Packers who had superb measurables (4.47 40, 36.5" vertical). He started strong with the Packers, but then kind of fell off the edge for whatever reason. I liked him coming into the draft so we'll see if Sutton can get him back on track.

With Berry, Commings and McMillian, the Chiefs have three guys on roster at the safety position that run in the mid-4.4's with excellent verticals.

Truthfully, I'd just as soon have Wyoming's Marqueston Huff as I would Jimmie Ward. I think both guys are pretty similar in their play styles and Huff would be definitely big considered more of bargain in the draft than Ward. Huff absolutely tore shit up at the Senior Bowl.
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Old 04-12-2014, 04:28 PM   #12
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Interesting. Didn't know any of that about McMillian.
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Old 04-12-2014, 04:35 PM   #13
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Old 04-12-2014, 04:40 PM   #14
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Van Noy is the only one that I would agree with you on.
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Old 04-12-2014, 04:55 PM   #15
Saccopoo Saccopoo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kccrow View Post
A long-winded response to Sac...

3. Gabe Jackson - OG - Mississippi State

Where he fits for KC: RG

...

What I don't like about Jackson is his movement pulling and his ability to climb the ladder and get up to linebackers.
Good response. Thanks.

With Jackson, I don't think he was really asked to pull and trap a lot simply because the Bulldogs didn't really need to. He's a guy that gets up out of his stance quickly (especially considering his size) and has very good feet and arms/hands. I think he will be more than adequate in that regard. Certainly no worse than a guy like Geoff Schwartz and has the potential for much more.

Also, Reid runs more of a power scheme versus a ZBS which is why you see him favoring guys like Schwartz, Linkenbach and Roke the Yoke Watkins over a guy like Asamoah, who they let walk.

As you mentioned, teams spending first rounders on guards have typically favored more agile, athletic guys, but recent big dudes like Larry Warford and Chance Warmack show that if you have power and some degree of pulling capabilities, you can get it done at a high level in this league if in the correct system.

I most certainly would take Jackson over either Yankey or S'ua-Filo, who, while both fine guards, won't translate as well to what Reid ultimately wants to run. As stated, I think Jackson has All-Pro level potential on this team.

And I understand that taking a guard in the first is a slit your wrist level thing for a lot of people around here, but we've got a major hole at both spots considering Roke Watkins will effectively be a rookie and Jeff Allen was flat out horrible last season. (Though, the guy has a great attitude and work ethic, so I'm hoping that he fixes whatever was ailing him performance wise last season.) We also need to see what they have planned for Eric Kush and Rod Hudson. One of those guys (Hudson) was one of the finest college guards to have ever played at that level. Having him move back to the OG position would certainly help shore up any perceived shortcomings at the position - depending on how they feel Kush is in terms of taking over the pivot spot. He looked really good during the Chargers game, but one game does not a season make.

If a guy like Cyril Richardson was there in the third or Stanford's Cam Fleming (who I really like a lot and think will translate exceptionally well to a OG at the next level) in the fourth, I'd be really happy with either, especially if they went with either Van Noy or Moncrief in the first.
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