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Old 04-22-2014, 01:26 PM  
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American Middle Class Is No Longer the World’s Richest

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The American middle class, long the most affluent in the world, has lost that distinction.

While the wealthiest Americans are outpacing many of their global peers, a New York Times analysis shows that across the lower- and middle-income tiers, citizens of other advanced countries have received considerably larger raises over the last three decades.

After-tax middle-class incomes in Canada — substantially behind in 2000 — now appear to be higher than in the United States. The poor in much of Europe earn more than poor Americans.

Three broad factors appear to be driving much of the weak income performance in the United States. First, educational attainment in the United States has risen far more slowly than in much of the industrialized world over the last three decades, making it harder for the American economy to maintain its share of highly skilled, well-paying jobs.

A second factor is that companies in the United States economy distribute a smaller share of their bounty to the middle class and poor than similar companies elsewhere. Top executives make substantially more money in the United States than in other wealthy countries. The minimum wage is lower. Labor unions are weaker.

Finally, governments in Canada and Western Europe take more aggressive steps to raise the take-home pay of low- and middle-income households by redistributing income.
A lot more info in the link, but I tried to quickly summarize.
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Old 04-23-2014, 09:13 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
he FACT is there was little deregulation. Plus deregulation started under Carter, believe it or not. As to the regulations that your side deems responsible for the financial banking and housing crisis, those repealed certain regs but they were replaced with new and untried regulations. Overall, very little deregulation.

Federal Reserve policy had a LOT to do with the last crisis. Federal Reserve policy by printing money, had to have that money spent somewhere. It went into real estate. In the 90's the money went into the stock market resulting in the dot com boom...and bust.
Could you be more clueless?

The CFMA and the repeal of Glass-Steagall were radical regulatory changes.
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Old 04-23-2014, 09:32 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by KC native View Post
Could you be more clueless?

The CFMA and the repeal of Glass-Steagall were radical regulatory changes.
You could hardly name a more radical regulatory change than Glass-Steagall's demise, but it wasn't sudden. The judicial interpretations of Glass-Steagall had been changing significantly over the preceding decades anyway.

The aforementioned financial crises are not something that can be easily blamed on one factor that we'd like to have be to blame.
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Old 04-23-2014, 09:32 AM   #108
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The average U.S. CEO is paid 331 times as much as their average employee. A new Demos report finds that the fast food industry, currently the subject of vast protests, "has the greatest CEO-to-worker pay disparity in our economy, with ratios exceeding 1,000-to-1."

-From a Gawker article

Also noted: pre-1980s, that figure was 50 to 1. And yet, we have people who will defend deregulation and the extremely wealthy because- well, I don't really know.

It's really interesting to watch Liberals continually pivot back to the fast food industry. They really have a fetish with this topic. Everytime someone talks about the economy or the middle class, "fast food" always comes up. Why? Fast food never was, is not, and never will be a middle class industry.


If you want to talk about the middle class, then do so. But at least talk about what the middle class is.
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Old 04-23-2014, 09:45 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post


If you want to talk about the middle class, then do so. But at least talk about what the middle class is.
The progs on the left are constantly moving the goal posts and re-defining words. After they use the arbitrary arm of govt to fix an alleged market-created problem ( which was really caused by some govt intervention), they then move in to fix the problem they created but first blame markets and redefine words. This is how how health care markets were ruined in the US.

For example I hear from liberal-left relatives: "We're paying for it already anyway!" To which I ask, "Why is that?" or "Who caused that?" I mean it was the govt that passed the law preventing ERs from turning anyone away. It's the govt who has allowed illegals to use our healthcare for free.

Such left-wing propaganda pushed by the media and education works on people ignorant of economics.
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Old 04-23-2014, 09:48 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
You could hardly name a more radical regulatory change than Glass-Steagall's demise, but it wasn't sudden. The judicial interpretations of Glass-Steagall had been changing significantly over the preceding decades anyway.

The aforementioned financial crises are not something that can be easily blamed on one factor that we'd like to have be to blame.
I never said that the financial crisis was due solely to the repeal of Glass-Steagall and CFMA.

The crisis had several causes with the primary two causes being the deregulation and the secondary being artificially low interest rates.
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Old 04-23-2014, 09:53 AM   #111
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It's really interesting to watch Liberals continually pivot back to the fast food industry. They really have a fetish with this topic. Everytime someone talks about the economy or the middle class, "fast food" always comes up. Why? Fast food never was, is not, and never will be a middle class industry.


If you want to talk about the middle class, then do so. But at least talk about what the middle class is.
Okay, fine. Forget that even exists. The 331:1 figure is still alarming, and a significant increase from what it was. Again, I ask, what do you gain in defending such blatant wealth disparity in this country?
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Old 04-23-2014, 10:07 AM   #112
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Complaining about wealth disparity is intrinsically un-American and is class warfare rhetoric.

Someone's success or wealth is not a zero-sum game whereby others were denied or can't achieve the same success. We already have so many things to aid people with govt loans for education, free universal education etc. What's the problem here?

What you want to look for is the govt connection leading to it, as it does not keep the playing field level. If the playing field is level you're still going to have some disparity because no one is equal in ability. No one is born into the same circumstances either. That's just life. Some born into wealth squanderit or lose it all several generations later. There's just as many riches-to-rags stories as there are rags-to-riches. So we will always have unequal outcomes. That is not a BAD thing.

Complaining about such disparities, thinking about them or looking for a way to level people down under the banner of "income equality" is communistic thinking.

You want to look at where such people are taking advantage of govt via unneeded subsidies, bailouts, legislating competition out via excessive or bad regulations. Ya' know where govt picks the winners. You don't want to do it via leveling down via redistribution due to class-envy.
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Old 04-23-2014, 10:08 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by KC native View Post
I never said that the financial crisis was due solely to the repeal of Glass-Steagall and CFMA.

The crisis had several causes with the primary two causes being the deregulation and the secondary being artificially low interest rates.
I agree in part, and I didn't mean to project that position on you. I was responding in part to you and in part to the run of the thread on the page I was reading.
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Old 04-23-2014, 10:12 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by Cephalic Trauma View Post
Okay, fine. Forget that even exists. The 331:1 figure is still alarming, and a significant increase from what it was. Again, I ask, what do you gain in defending such blatant wealth disparity in this country?
Why is it a surprise that the distribution of salaries in most companies would follow this kind of a curve, where a very small number of positions at the top make a very high salary?

Why is it a surprise that occupations where the base level employee is unskilled show the highest difference between the base level employee and the CEO?

CEOs are going to go where it's in their best interest to be. Companies do have to compete to bring in the best ones. If you're a shareholder, do you want a bargain priced hire in the top chair?

I suppose the minimum wage attitude toward executives would always be, "Why is he worth so much more than me?", but the executive attitudetoward a CEO would be, "How much will it cost this company NOT to have quality leadership?"
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Old 04-23-2014, 10:12 AM   #115
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Artifically low interest rates is also the Austrian School of economics argument. This WAS part of the problem. It makes credit cheap and more available which is another way of increasing the money supply.
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Old 04-23-2014, 10:16 AM   #116
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Oh, and I might add, that the Federal Reserve is made up of that 1% the left keeps bitching about. They are the first ones to be looked at as culprits. Then they made all that money available for bailing out their cronies. It's corrupt, but both sides of the aisle never point their finger at that clique of rich parasites who manage the system for their own benefit as well as their cronies.
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Old 04-23-2014, 10:16 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Complaining about wealth disparity is intrinsically un-American and is class warfare rhetoric.

Someone's success or wealth is not a zero-sum game whereby others were denied or can't achieve the same success. We already have so many things to aid people with govt loans for education, free universal education etc. What's the problem here?

What you want to look for is the govt connection leading to it, as it does not keep the playing field level. If the playing field is level you're still going to have some disparity because no one is equal in ability. No one is born into the same circumstances either. That's just life. Some born into wealth squanderit or lose it all several generations later. There's just as many riches-to-rags stories as there are rags-to-riches. So we will always have unequal outcomes. That is not a BAD thing.

Complaining about such disparities, thinking about them or looking for a way to level people down under the banner of "income equality" is communistic thinking.

You want to look at where such people are taking advantage of govt via unneeded subsidies, bailouts, legislating competition out via excessive or bad regulations. Ya' know where govt picks the winners. You don't want to do it via leveling down via redistribution due to class-envy.
Question 1: Would you agree that a future Walton baby, who will inherit billions of dollars, has a tremendous advantage over a child born into a family with little to no money?

Dramatic example, I know, but it highlights my point that some people will have an easy road to success while other are ****ED from the start.

Question 2: Are you assuming that all education, healthcare, background, etc is the same? That there are no health disparities in this country based on socioeconomic status (race aside)?
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Old 04-23-2014, 10:21 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by Cephalic Trauma View Post
Question 1: Would you agree that a future Walton baby, who will inherit billions of dollars, has a tremendous advantage over a child born into a family with little to no money?
Your answer is in the post you just quoted. I covered it because this post of yours is the typical refrain by the left. I said that's life. We are ALL dealt a deck of cards at birth. It's what we chose to do with that deck. Stop encouraging people to feel like victims. If you allow that, it's what they will become.

Look at Dr. Carson and what he did coming from a poor background and raised by a single mom. Same with Ron Paul who worked his way through college and medical school. If one really wants success they can and will achieve it. Same is true for some high school drop outs.

Then there's the Steve Jobs and Bill Gates who dropped out of college. So you could say each has different talents, abilities and smarts too. Govt redistribution is NEVER going to fix such things. Unless you want to live in a full-blown socialism aka communism.

The poor will always be with us. Making more poor or equally poor via redistribution is a worse cure than the problem.

Then there are those who are content with less. I have no desire to be part of the 1%. But some do.
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Old 04-23-2014, 10:28 AM   #119
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Your answer is in the post you just quoted. I covered it because this post of yours is the typical refrain by the left. I said that's life. We are ALL dealt a deck of cards at birth. It's what we chose to do with that deck. Stop encouraging people to feel like victims. If you allow that, it's what they will become.

Look at Dr. Carson and what he did. Same with Ron Paul who worked his way through college and medical school. If one really wants success they can and will achieve it. Same is true for some high school drop outs.

Then there are those who are content with less. I have no desire to be part of the 1%. But some do.
That's life? That's your answer? WTF.

So that's life, and we should accept it. Sorry many kids from terrible neighborhoods with poor prenatal care and education, you are ****ed, but that's life. Oh, Walton boy. What a successful man you are!. Forget the billions you inherited. We should all strive to be what you embody, because you make it so easy!

Do you realize that you are advocating a 400 meter dash where some start at the 399 meter mark and MOST start 50-100 meters behind the starting line? Because, well, that's life.

Why is it, that you want to talk about individuals when millions of people are held down? It's not a ****ing choice. It's a systematic trend.
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Old 04-23-2014, 10:32 AM   #120
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I am just advocating for the empowerment of the marginal in this country with education and healthcare. But as long as there is no monetary incentive for the people at the top, the masses will continue to suffer at the behest of their masters. So it goes.
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