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Old 06-03-2014, 12:13 PM  
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
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Seattle approves $15 minimum wage

http://money.cnn.com/2014/06/02/news...-minimum-wage/
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Old 06-04-2014, 06:21 AM   #121
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If I live in the desert and have no water and rice I should stand there and wait for the more fortunate to bring me water and food?

Or do I go to where there are trees and farms of food and lots of water and just work for food for my family to survive.

If I am at a job that pays $7.25 an hr and don't like do I sit there and say this place owes me more im worth it, if they don't give me a raise ill start giving away food and stealing to make up for my lack of pay.

Or I look to see were I can make $15 hr or more working the food industry say North Dakota, but I cant afford to move and the cost of living is so high I will have to live in a tent until I can land an oil job. Its just to risky to venture away from my comfort zone.

Na just better wait until someone gives you a hand out never take a chance to better yourself, and family it just too risky right to many bad things can happen, you could lose your food stamps and Gov money your family is doing just fine.
If your happy living off the system don't bitch about low wages go where the demand is or stay in your comfort zone and wait tell your BIG GOV gives you a raise because you know you deserve it, and its fair
never think about working your ass off and sacrificing for your family , blame your whole life on big business and the rich are not paying there fair share, feel sorry for yourself, because your not equal. Equal to what?

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Old 06-04-2014, 06:38 AM   #122
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Plow View Post
First off, I'm attempting to have a rational discussion with you about this. I'm trying to see your point of view as someone that doesn't run or work in a small business.

My business experience is running a small business for 15 years and being in the industry for almost 20 years. Whether that is sufficient enough business experience for you, I don't know and honestly don't care. I've been in every position of this business and put in the long hours for no pay and done everything to make this business what it is today.

As far as demand increasing as minimum wage increases.... I know your answer to this, but I'll say it anyway. As employee costs go up, so will costs to make & ship products. It doesn't take much to understand that if things cost more to make & ship, the cost of said item is going to increase - even for small businesses. Larger companies may be able to eat those costs, but small companies can't. If a small company wants to take a loss on said product, like you said, they'll eventually end up out of business which creates demand for your product.

In regards to decreased employee turnover - yes, I do understand what you are saying. Reducing the amount of training you are doing certainly reduces costs. But you are assuming that employees are turning over.

As I said before in a different post, in my company, we don't start at minimum wage, but you would think it's too low. Of our 23 employees, we have 5 that have been with us over 10 years, and 7-10 that have been with us 5+ years. Of the remaining 8-10 employees, the majority are college age kids finishing up their junior college degrees before moving on to KU/KSU/etc. Those 8-10 employees are younger kids not looking at this job as a career, they are using the job to pay for school to get their degree. Which we encourage.

I'm likely talking in circles at this point so I'll stop. I don't think you will have a rational discussion about it anyway.
It's hard to have a rational discussion without someone who ignores evidence, like you do, and someone who goes out of their way to not understand how minimum wage increases lead to increases in demand.

And it is up the company and the consumer to shoulder the cost of employing labor. If you pay is low enough to qualify your labor for the social safety net, then you are socializing your labor losses.

That's not capitalism, and no amount of whining about costs will change that.
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Old 06-04-2014, 06:39 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
He doesn't know WTF he is talking about. That being said, it is the small business that gets but ****ed with laws like this. But see, big business is just fine with small business getting butt ****ed.

The problem is that big business sets the tone for the entire argument. When top execs have gone from an 80-1 pay differential under Reagan to almost 300-1 now while minimum wage, when factoring in inflation, has actually gone down over that time. Thus the stage is set for Liberal Do-Gooders to come in with these laws that actually make it worse, not better.
First, I've already went over how it is the big companies that mainly employ minimum wage.

Second, you, like a lot of people, only focus on the supply side. Which is wrong.

The demand side is what grows the economy.
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Old 06-04-2014, 06:40 AM   #124
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
So tell me, is 2 people working for $7.25 an hour better or worse than 1 person working for $15 an hour?
Are those two people on the social safety net?

Do you want your tax dollars going to 2 people who work full time because their employer has socialized the labor costs?
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Old 06-04-2014, 06:44 AM   #125
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Originally Posted by redshirt32 View Post
If I live in the desert and have no water and rice I should stand there and wait for the more fortunate to bring me water and food?

Or do I go to where there are trees and farms of food and lots of water and just work for food for my family to survive.

If I am at a job that pays $7.25 an hr and don't like do I sit there and say this place owes me more im worth it, if they don't give me a raise ill start giving away food and stealing to make up for my lack of pay.

Or I look to see were I can make $15 hr or more working the food industry say North Dakota, but I cant afford to move and the cost of living is so high I will have to live in a tent until I can land an oil job. Its just to risky to venture away from my comfort zone.

Na just better wait until someone gives you a hand out never take a chance to better yourself, and family it just too risky right to many bad things can happen, you could lose your food stamps and Gov money your family is doing just fine.
If your happy living off the system don't bitch about low wages go where the demand is or stay in your comfort zone and wait tell your BIG GOV gives you a raise because you know you deserve it, and its fair
never think about working your ass off and sacrificing for your family , blame your whole life on big business and the rich are not paying there fair share, feel sorry for yourself, because your not equal. Equal to what?

You make your own bed how it looks and sleeps depends only on you!
Hey look, another idiot that thinks this is about a single worker, rather than a systemic problem with companies socializing their losses.

And this idiot thinks someone working full and and expecting to be able to buy food and housing without government assistance is a hand out.

It's amazing how many people have bought into supporting socialism, as long as it saves companies money.
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Old 06-04-2014, 07:03 AM   #126
redshirt32 redshirt32 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Hey look, another idiot that thinks this is about a single worker, rather than a systemic problem with companies socializing their losses.

And this idiot thinks someone working full and and expecting to be able to buy food and housing without government assistance is a hand out.

It's amazing how many people have bought into supporting socialism, as long as it saves companies money.
Hey I never called you and idiot, for your ****ing opinions but do say what ever makes you feel better.

Your view is the right way everyone else is ****ing wrong and an idiot,
great!!!!!!
you should run for president and run on hope and change and a pack of lies
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Old 06-04-2014, 07:08 AM   #127
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redshirt32 View Post
Hey I never called you and idiot, for your ****ing opinions but do say what ever makes you feel better.

Your view is the right way everyone else is ****ing wrong and an idiot,
great!!!!!!
you should run for president and run on hope and change and a pack of lies
Don't want to be called an idiot, don't say idiotic things. Like someone working full time and wanting to be able to afford food and housing without government assistance is looking for a handout. That's and idiotic thing to say.
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Old 06-04-2014, 07:12 AM   #128
Graystoke Graystoke is offline
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Don't want to be called an idiot, don't say idiotic things. Like someone working full time and wanting to be able to afford food and housing without government assistance is looking for a handout. That's and idiotic thing to say.
I have a feeling we are all Idiots in your world.

Do you own a small business?
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Old 06-04-2014, 07:20 AM   #129
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Originally Posted by Graystoke View Post
I have a feeling we are all Idiots in your world.

Do you own a small business?
No, there aren't a lot of idiots in my world.

But people who think someone who is working full time and would like to earn enough to NOT qualify for government assistance is looking for a hand out, is an idiot.
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Old 06-04-2014, 07:21 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by Graystoke View Post
I have a feeling we are all Idiots in your world.

Do you own a small business?
Dude you haven't figured out he's a disgruntled minimum wage earner. Probably been working the same job for quite a while and can't figure out how to get a bump above minimum wage.
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Old 06-04-2014, 07:29 AM   #131
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Dude you haven't figured out he's a disgruntled minimum wage earner. Probably been working the same job for quite a while and can't figure out how to get a bump above minimum wage.
This represents the conservative mind set fairly well.

If it doesn't affect you personally, you can't see why someone would support it.

Well, unlike you guys, I understand what builds a healthy growing economy where the whole nation benefits. It's called Demand.

And having millions of workers, who work full time, but qualify for government assistance, is bad for your local government, state government, and federal government, not to mention your local economy.

I, for one, don't like companies sucking dry my government resources by socializing their losses.

Why you do you support socialism?
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Old 06-04-2014, 07:29 AM   #132
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Loneiguana thinks that McDonalds has an obligation to pay a single mother of two without any additional child support enough money to give her a middle class lifestyle.
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Old 06-04-2014, 07:31 AM   #133
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Loneiguana thinks that McDonalds has an obligation to pay a single mother of two without any additional child support enough money to give her a middle class lifestyle.
Blaise thinks being able to afford food and housing without government assistance is middle class lifestyle.

Blaise makes strawman arguments because that's all he has.

Blaise thinks companies shouldn't shoulder the burden of employing labor, the government should.

Blaise is a socialist.
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Old 06-04-2014, 07:41 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
This represents the conservative mind set fairly well.

If it doesn't affect you personally, you can't see why someone would support it.

Well, unlike you guys, I understand what builds a healthy growing economy where the whole nation benefits. It's called Demand.

And having millions of workers, who work full time, but qualify for government assistance, is bad for your local government, state government, and federal government, not to mention your local economy.

I, for one, don't like companies sucking dry my government resources by socializing their losses.

Why you do you support socialism?
I don't, I support getting off your ass and supporting yourself. I support small business owners who will take it in the shorts if the minimum wage increases. I don't agree with the Govt. telling business how much to pay employees.

I would let the free market play out. Which means what I posted earlier. The over abundance of people willing to work for minimum wage is what sets the market wage.

What you are proposing is to take from mom and pop small business and make them earn less so someone else can earn more. Its either reduce employees and take on the work themselves or they raise their prices to compensate. You don't have a clue what it takes to run a small business.
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Old 06-04-2014, 07:43 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Don't want to be called an idiot, don't say idiotic things. Like someone working full time and wanting to be able to afford food and housing without government assistance is looking for a handout. That's and idiotic thing to say.
So I should hire you and pay you what ever amount of dollar based on what?
So you can afford food and housing, without gov help is this just for yourself or a big family?
What kind of place do you need ? What kind of food do you want to eat?

If you want to live in the big city your going to have to pay more for everything, it sucks been there done that, I did not sit around and wish for a better job and better pay.

Nor did I create a family bigger than four, still it was tough at first,
You go where the money is, you sacrifice get training eat ****ing noodles, peanut butter and jelly rice , you work days and your wife work nights or vice versa, find cheaper rent move if you have too and better yourself by learning new skills for better pay.

There is nothing to be ashamed about getting gov help, tell you can get on your feet and actually make good pay based on your work performance history ,education , and skills

You cant live on boardwalk unless you can afford it, live within your means until you get where you want to be lots of us idiots out here I guess ive been doing it the wrong way for all theses years who knew?
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