Home Mail MemberMap Chat (0) Wallpapers
Go Back   ChiefsPlanet > The Lounge > D.C.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-12-2014, 09:36 PM  
Taco John Taco John is offline
12on Paul
 
Taco John's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Casino cash: $10100710
Obama admin tells local cops to keep cell phone surveillance secret

US pushing local cops to stay mum on surveillance

US pushing local police departments to keep quiet on cell-phone surveillance technology

The Obama administration has been quietly advising local police not to disclose details about surveillance technology they are using to sweep up basic cellphone data from entire neighborhoods, The Associated Press has learned.

Citing security reasons, the U.S. has intervened in routine state public records cases and criminal trials regarding use of the technology. This has resulted in police departments withholding materials or heavily censoring documents in rare instances when they disclose any about the purchase and use of such powerful surveillance equipment.

Federal involvement in local open records proceedings is unusual. It comes at a time when President Barack Obama has said he welcomes a debate on government surveillance and called for more transparency about spying in the wake of disclosures about classified federal surveillance programs.

One well-known type of this surveillance equipment is known as a Stingray, an innovative way for law enforcement to track cellphones used by suspects and gather evidence. The equipment tricks cellphones into identifying some of their owners' account information, like a unique subscriber number, and transmitting data to police as if it were a phone company's tower. That allows police to obtain cellphone information without having to ask for help from service providers, such as Verizon or AT&T, and can locate a phone without the user even making a call or sending a text message.

But without more details about how the technology works and under what circumstances it's used, it's unclear whether the technology might violate a person's constitutional rights or whether it's a good investment of taxpayer dollars.

Interviews, court records and public-records requests show the Obama administration is asking agencies to withhold common information about the equipment, such as how the technology is used and how to turn it on. That pushback has come in the form of FBI affidavits and consultation in local criminal cases.

"These extreme secrecy efforts are in relation to very controversial, local government surveillance practices using highly invasive technology," said Nathan Freed Wessler, a staff attorney with the American Civil Liberties Union, which has fought for the release of these types of records. "If public participation means anything, people should have the facts about what the government is doing to them."

Harris Corp., a key manufacturer of this equipment, built a secrecy element into its authorization agreement with the Federal Communications Commission in 2011. That authorization has an unusual requirement: that local law enforcement "coordinate with the FBI the acquisition and use of the equipment." Companies like Harris need FCC authorization in order to sell wireless equipment that could interfere with radio frequencies.

A spokesman from Harris Corp. said the company will not discuss its products for the Defense Department and law enforcement agencies, although public filings showed government sales of communications systems such as the Stingray accounted for nearly one-third of its $5 billion in revenue. "As a government contractor, our solutions are regulated and their use is restricted," spokesman Jim Burke said.

Local police agencies have been denying access to records about this surveillance equipment under state public records laws. Agencies in San Diego, Chicago and Oakland County, Michigan, for instance, declined to tell the AP what devices they purchased, how much they cost and with whom they shared information. San Diego police released a heavily censored purchasing document. Oakland officials said police-secrecy exemptions and attorney-client privilege keep their hands tied. It was unclear whether the Obama administration interfered in the AP requests.

"It's troubling to think the FBI can just trump the state's open records law," said Ginger McCall, director of the open government project at the Electronic Privacy Information Center. McCall suspects the surveillance would not pass constitutional muster.

"The vast amount of information it sweeps in is totally irrelevant to the investigation," she said.

A court case challenging the public release of information from the Tucson Police Department includes an affidavit from an FBI special agent, Bradley Morrison, who said the disclosure would "result in the FBI's inability to protect the public from terrorism and other criminal activity because through public disclosures, this technology has been rendered essentially useless for future investigations."

Morrison said revealing any information about the technology would violate a federal homeland security law about information-sharing and arms-control laws legal arguments that that outside lawyers and transparency experts said are specious and don't comport with court cases on the U.S. Freedom of Information Act.

The FBI did not answer questions about its role in states' open records proceedings.

But a former Justice Department official said the federal government should be making this argument in federal court, not a state level where different public records laws apply.

"The federal government appears to be attempting to assert a federal interest in the information being sought, but it's going about it the wrong way," said Dan Metcalfe, the former director of the Justice Department's office of information and privacy. Currently Metcalfe is the executive director of American University's law school Collaboration on Government Secrecy project.

A criminal case in Tallahassee cites the same homeland security laws in Morrison's affidavit, court records show, and prosecutors told the court they consulted with the FBI to keep portions of a transcript sealed. That transcript, released earlier this month, revealed that Stingrays "force" cellphones to register their location and identifying information with the police device and enables officers to track calls whenever the phone is on.

One law enforcement official familiar with the Tucson lawsuit, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the official was not authorized to speak about internal discussions, said federal lawyers told Tucson police they couldn't hand over a PowerPoint presentation made by local officers about how to operate the Stingray device. Federal officials forwarded Morrison's affidavit for use in the Tucson police department's reply to the lawsuit, rather than requesting the case be moved to federal court.

In Sarasota, Florida, the U.S. Marshals Service confiscated local records on the use of the surveillance equipment, removing the documents from the reach of Florida's expansive open-records law after the ACLU asked under Florida law to see the documents. The ACLU has asked a judge to intervene. The Marshals Service said it deputized the officer as a federal agent and therefore the records weren't accessible under Florida law.

http://news.yahoo.com/us-pushing-loc...174613067.html
Posts: 50,702
Taco John is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Taco John is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Taco John is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Taco John is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Taco John is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Taco John is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Taco John is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Taco John is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Taco John is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Taco John is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Taco John is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2014, 09:07 AM   #16
Fish Fish is online now
Missing Dick Curl
 
Fish's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2005
Casino cash: $2120118
What exactly is so shocking in this article? The fact that local police forces use surveillance that might present some privacy issues? Or that the federal government doesn't want the local government to give out the details of how that "Secret" equipment works?

Both are rather obvious and expected...
__________________
Posts: 25,429
Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2014, 09:11 AM   #17
planetdoc planetdoc is offline
Veteran
 

Join Date: Apr 2012
Casino cash: $25264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish View Post
Both are rather obvious and expected...
if we lived in a police state. Is the US a police state?
Posts: 1,989
planetdoc has disabled reputation
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2014, 09:13 AM   #18
Fish Fish is online now
Missing Dick Curl
 
Fish's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2005
Casino cash: $2120118
Quote:
Originally Posted by planetdoc View Post
if we lived in a police state. Is the US a police state?
I don't believe we live in a police state, and this alleged information doesn't change that fact even if true.
__________________
Posts: 25,429
Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2014, 09:19 AM   #19
planetdoc planetdoc is offline
Veteran
 

Join Date: Apr 2012
Casino cash: $25264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish View Post
and this alleged information
stingray use is not just alleged. its proven fact in a number of states.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish View Post
doesn't change that fact even if true.
how do you define a police state? What criteria would have to happen for you to believe that its true?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dicti...police%20state
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meriam webster definition of police state
a country in which the activities of the people are strictly controlled by the government with the help of a police force
A police state doesnt materialize instantly, but rather like a trickle that chips away at personal liberty and the constitution.
Posts: 1,989
planetdoc has disabled reputation
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2014, 10:07 AM   #20
Fish Fish is online now
Missing Dick Curl
 
Fish's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2005
Casino cash: $2120118
Quote:
Originally Posted by planetdoc View Post
stingray use is not just alleged. its proven fact in a number of states.



how do you define a police state? What criteria would have to happen for you to believe that its true?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dicti...police%20state


A police state doesnt materialize instantly, but rather like a trickle that chips away at personal liberty and the constitution.
The alleged use of Stingray doesn't bother me.

We don't live in a police state. Our actions aren't strictly controlled by the government/police. I believe you acknowledge this in saying that a police state doesn't materialize instantly.
__________________
Posts: 25,429
Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2014, 10:10 AM   #21
InChiefsHell InChiefsHell is offline
Rockin' yer FACE OFF!
 
InChiefsHell's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
Casino cash: $1083446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish View Post
What exactly is so shocking in this article? The fact that local police forces use surveillance that might present some privacy issues? Or that the federal government doesn't want the local government to give out the details of how that "Secret" equipment works?

Both are rather obvious and expected...
And you're...OK with this??
__________________

We have a million reasons for failure, but not one excuse...
Die Donks, DIE!!

A quote:
"Oh well, there's always next year. We'll be better then, you'll see..." - Every Chiefs fan for the last 42...crap...43 years...

Quit listening to all that crappy new music and check out HEADSTRONG!
Posts: 12,635
InChiefsHell is too fat/Omaha.InChiefsHell is too fat/Omaha.InChiefsHell is too fat/Omaha.InChiefsHell is too fat/Omaha.InChiefsHell is too fat/Omaha.InChiefsHell is too fat/Omaha.InChiefsHell is too fat/Omaha.InChiefsHell is too fat/Omaha.InChiefsHell is too fat/Omaha.InChiefsHell is too fat/Omaha.InChiefsHell is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2014, 10:14 AM   #22
planetdoc planetdoc is offline
Veteran
 

Join Date: Apr 2012
Casino cash: $25264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish View Post
I believe you acknowledge this in saying that a police state doesn't materialize instantly.
It is written, A little leaven corrupteth the whole lump.
Posts: 1,989
planetdoc has disabled reputation
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2014, 10:27 AM   #23
Fish Fish is online now
Missing Dick Curl
 
Fish's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2005
Casino cash: $2120118
Quote:
Originally Posted by InChiefsHell View Post
And you're...OK with this??
It doesn't really bother me much to be honest. This kind of thing has always been happening, with whatever technology the governments have had available. The important thing is that I'm not living in a gulag, and nobody I know of has any problems with unwanted government surveillance.

The smart phone in your pocket should not be expected to provide you with 100% guaranteed privacy at all times. In a perfect Utopia world, yes. But we don't live in perfect Utopia and never will. We are incredibly reliant on a huge infrastructure of information. There will always always be intrusion capabilities because of that, from the government and other technically advanced entities. That's an unfortunate side effect of a massive technical infrastructure spanning every aspect of our lives. You can be distrustful of that and stomp your feet and wrap your phone in aluminum foil if you want. But it's not going to change anything.
__________________
Posts: 25,429
Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2014, 10:14 PM   #24
Sorter Sorter is offline
Caralho
 
Sorter's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Belo Horizante
Casino cash: $100061492
Quote:
Originally Posted by planetdoc View Post
your posting history. you shill for the military industrial complex.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavericks Ace View Post
I have completely given up on Alex Smith as a qb. Its painful to watch. Like, worse than watching Colt McCoy.
Posts: 15,016
Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2014, 10:50 PM   #25
GloucesterChief GloucesterChief is offline
Veteran
 

Join Date: Jan 2013
Casino cash: $16589
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish View Post
It doesn't really bother me much to be honest. This kind of thing has always been happening, with whatever technology the governments have had available. The important thing is that I'm not living in a gulag, and nobody I know of has any problems with unwanted government surveillance.

The smart phone in your pocket should not be expected to provide you with 100% guaranteed privacy at all times. In a perfect Utopia world, yes. But we don't live in perfect Utopia and never will. We are incredibly reliant on a huge infrastructure of information. There will always always be intrusion capabilities because of that, from the government and other technically advanced entities. That's an unfortunate side effect of a massive technical infrastructure spanning every aspect of our lives. You can be distrustful of that and stomp your feet and wrap your phone in aluminum foil if you want. But it's not going to change anything.
Any problems that they know about actually. No one but the crazies believed that the government was collecting the phone information of US citizens until Snowden blew the whistle.

If you are okay with police using this technology without a warrant, then you must be okay with the abuses that will certainly come from it.
Posts: 1,304
GloucesterChief would the whole thing.GloucesterChief would the whole thing.GloucesterChief would the whole thing.GloucesterChief would the whole thing.GloucesterChief would the whole thing.GloucesterChief would the whole thing.GloucesterChief would the whole thing.GloucesterChief would the whole thing.GloucesterChief would the whole thing.GloucesterChief would the whole thing.GloucesterChief would the whole thing.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 03:22 PM   #26
planetdoc planetdoc is offline
Veteran
 

Join Date: Apr 2012
Casino cash: $25264
Emails Show Feds Asking Florida Cops to Deceive Judges
(highlights)
Quote:
Police in Florida have, at the request of the U.S. Marshals Service, been deliberately deceiving judges and defendants about their use of a controversial surveillance tool to track suspects, according to newly obtained emails.

At the request of the Marshals Service, the officers using so-called stingrays have been routinely telling judges, in applications for warrants, that they obtained knowledge of a suspect’s location from a “confidential source” rather than disclosing that the information was gleaned using a stingray.

“Concealing the use of stingrays deprives defendants of their right to challenge unconstitutional surveillance and keeps the public in the dark about invasive monitoring by local police,” the ACLU writes in a blog post about the emails. “And local and federal law enforcement should certainly not be colluding to hide basic and accurate information about their practices from the public and the courts.”
I dont think judges take too kindly to being lied to. Contempt and perjury come to mind.
Posts: 1,989
planetdoc has disabled reputation
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 04:12 PM   #27
patteeu patteeu is offline
The 23rd Pillar
 
patteeu's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Casino cash: $473425
Quote:
Originally Posted by planetdoc View Post
Emails Show Feds Asking Florida Cops to Deceive Judges
(highlights)


I dont think judges take too kindly to being lied to. Contempt and perjury come to mind.
I don't think you can call this a lie or charge anyone with perjury unless "confidential source" has some specifically defined meaning in this jurisdiction.
__________________


"I'll see you guys in New York." ISIS Caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi to US military personnel upon his release from US custody at Camp Bucca in Iraq during Obama's first year in office.
Posts: 75,743
patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.