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Old 06-23-2014, 12:39 AM  
Taco John Taco John is offline
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Cheney basically wants us to open a WWII like offensive in the Middle East...

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Old 06-23-2014, 02:33 PM   #31
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Old 06-23-2014, 02:41 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Barnum was right.
That's what Cheney counted on to get us over there the first, er, second time.
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Old 06-23-2014, 02:41 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
That's what Cheney counted on to get us over there the first, er, second time.
You don't get to say what Cheney counted on.
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Old 06-23-2014, 02:44 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
You don't get to say what Cheney counted on.

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Old 06-23-2014, 02:45 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post


Sorry, cross thread humor.
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Old 06-23-2014, 02:51 PM   #36
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That's what Cheney and his ilk wanted all along, if you read the PNAC and AEI documents, where Cheney was a heavy hitter. Then read that other paper calling for intentionally creating a new Middle East, you can see what they've always been trying to do.
Finally recalled the name of "that other paper":
Quote:
A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm (commonly known as the "Clean Break" report) is a policy document that was prepared in 1996 by a study group led by Richard Perle for Benjamin Netanyahu, the then Prime Minister of Israel.[1] The report explained a new approach to solving Israel's security problems in the Middle East with an emphasis on "Western values". It has since been criticized for advocating an aggressive new policy including the removal of Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq, and the containment of Syria by engaging in proxy warfare and highlighting their possession of "weapons of mass destruction".

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In March 2003 Patrick J. Buchanan, referring to the 2003 invasion of Iraq and the report, wrote that "Their plan, which urged Israel to re-establish 'the principle of preemption,' has now been imposed by Perle, Feith, Wurmser & Co. on the United States."

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In 2006 commentator Karen Kwiatkowski [ Former military and also a libertarian] pointed to the similarities between the proposed actions in the Clean Break document and the subsequent 2003 invasion of Iraq.[7] Soon after Phyllis Bennis pointed to the similarities between the proposals in the Clean Break document and the subsequent 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict.

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In 2006 Sidney Blumenthal noted the paper's relevance to potential Israeli bombing of Syria and Iran, writing that "In order to try to understand the neoconservative road map, senior national security professionals have begun circulating among themselves" the Clean Break "neocon manifesto."[9] Soon after "Taki" of The American Conservative wrote that:
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recently, Netanyahu suggested that President Bush had assured him Iran will be prevented from going nuclear. I take him at his word. Netanyahu seems to be the main mover in America’s official adoption of the 1996 white paper A Clean Break, authored by him and American fellow neocons, which aimed to aggressively remake the strategic environments of Iraq, Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, and Iran. As they say in boxing circles, three down, two to go.
Was it Rumsfeld who said we were going to be taking 7 nations down to Wesley Clark back in 2002?

This has to be why we have congressmen and potential presidential candidates being paid to go on trips to Israel--to pass muster by a foreign govt. It's nothing less than treason that our men and women should die for another govt.

Can't seem to find the original document which I have posted in the past.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clean...ring_the_Realm
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Old 06-23-2014, 02:56 PM   #37
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From Wesley Clark. Oh yeah, he's a liberal though. So what, people on the right have printed this and believed it too.

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On the first visit, less than two weeks after Sept. 11, he writes, a “senior general” told him, “We’re going to attack Iraq. The decision has basically been made.”

Six weeks later, Clark returned to Washington to see the same general and inquired whether the plan to strike Iraq was still under consideration. The general’s response was stunning:

“‘Oh, it’s worse than that,’ he said, holding up a memo on his desk. ‘Here’s the paper from the Office of the Secretary of Defense [then Donald Rumsfeld] outlining the strategy. We’re going to take out seven countries in five years.’ And he named them, starting with Iraq and Syria and ending with Iran.

While Clark doesn’t name the other four countries, he has mentioned in televised interviews that the hit list included Lebanon, Libya, Somalia and Sudan.

http://www.salon.com/2007/10/12/wesley_clark/
Yeah, it's all just a coincidence. They've got Rupert Murdoch in their back pocket to provide the propaganda and lies too. Meanwhile, the plan unfolds right in front our own eyes and ears.
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Old 06-23-2014, 03:06 PM   #38
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Pat feels offended by my FP views, I am offended that we have people in this country who support this kind of thinking. It's like Germany circa 1930's complete with the "American Exceptionalism" line attached. Then there's Cheney who says we can't debate the matter. He acts like a Brown Shirt and violates our Constitution as if the executive should just decide.
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Old 06-23-2014, 04:56 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
No we haven't. This is an entirely created situation due to bad policy. Either you support Just War Doctrine as a Christian or you don't.

These people have to want to be democracies and they don't. They like authoritarian rule.
I wonder if patty or any of the other resident Chicken Fers can name the last time, if any, a regime was changed to a democracy through forceful military action.
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Old 06-23-2014, 05:06 PM   #40
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Lets just match China in green energy spending and in 10-20 years we can let them all kill themselves without worrying about our economy... its a win win.
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Old 06-23-2014, 05:31 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
Really? That's silly. I usually expect more wisdom from you.

Dick Cheney is pretty clear in that he knows that we're not going to be able to air strike our way across a region to get permanent gains - certainly not the kind that Cheney hopes for. He's looking for a fundamental transition in Arab relations similar to what the US has with Europe. That's certainly what McCain was hoping for, and he's made no bones about it.

Cheney has been very public about his intentions to see us have 200,000 troops in that region:
(Feb 11, 2013) Former Vice President Dick Cheney called for the immediate invasion of Iran today, arguing the time had come to stop the Iranian nuclear program with American boots on the ground.

In a speech to the conservative Heritage Foundation, the 72-year-old Republican criticized the Obama administration for its "appeasement" of Tehran's rulers and outlined a "fool-proof" plan to occupy the Islamic republic of 75 million people.

Cheney's plan suggests the United States lead a multinational coalition of 200,000 troops in a multi-pronged invasion from land, sea, and air with the goal of regime change.

"The objective will be to overwhelm the enemy with air strikes," Cheney said. "Our superior firepower will shock and awe the regime into complete and permanent submission, making larger numbers of troops unnecessary."
So there is that, and now he's talking about a region-wide effort - that's going to take more than 200,000 troops, and what Cheney is talking about is a national commitment, not merely drone striking our way to middle east peace.

This conversation isn't about whether the US can drone strike our way to peaceful relations. This is an actual war conversation that forces people to ask themselves how involved they want the US to be in the middle east.
Whether that's what Cheney has in mind or not, he certainly hasn't said it and it's definitely not in the video you posted. I think you're getting way ahead of yourself here.

BTW, that quote you have above comes from an onion-like satirical website.

Edit: I see that others have already pointed that out.
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Old 06-23-2014, 05:39 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Was it Rumsfeld who said we were going to be taking 7 nations down to Wesley Clark back in 2002?
No.
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Old 06-23-2014, 05:42 PM   #43
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I wonder if patty or any of the other resident Chicken Fers can name the last time, if any, a regime was changed to a democracy through forceful military action.
No further back than 238 years at the most.
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Old 06-23-2014, 05:44 PM   #44
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No further back than 238 years at the most.
Ouch. But you don't get to say that.
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Old 06-23-2014, 06:05 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
I wonder if patty or any of the other resident Chicken Fers can name the last time, if any, a regime was changed to a democracy through forceful military action.
Let's see, starting with the Bill of Rights in the UK (1689)... it's been attempted how many times?

Are you going to count history since WW2? Seems like some of the primary countries involved in that conflict became democratic after it was all over.

And for that matter, Iraq was changed to a democracy so I'm not even sure what your point is.
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