Home Mail MemberMap Chat (0) Wallpapers
Go Back   ChiefsPlanet > The Royal Lounge > D.C.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-07-2014, 12:14 PM  
Bufkin Bufkin is offline
Eat shit, asshole
 
Bufkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Casino cash: $11019
Atheism vs Theism: A discussion between Dave and Eric

While I find myself enjoying formal debates (for nostalgic purposes), I agree with Dave that a discussion is more thought provoking and ultimately will go further on this topic.

To begin, let me identify myself when I use the term "theist". I grew up in a very strict religious household which I ran away from my senior year in high school. I identified myself as an atheist up until my sophomore year of college, when I read the Bible in its entirety following the death of my best friend. While I would argue that my belief in God and the Bible can be supported intellectually, scientifically, historically, and philosophically, I would concede that my "born-again" conversion was wholeheartedly an emotional one.

Notice I said scientifically. I love science. Even though I am a philosophy major, it was the scientific arguments for a transcendant being (or lack thereof) that got me interested in the theism vs. atheism debate. I would argue that the beauty of my specific belief (Christianity) is that our worldview is not defined by a specific theory of how life began. For the atheist, it's evolution or nothing. If Darwinian Evolution is debunked, then the atheist has precious little to lean on without invoking a designer. As a Christian, I would say that I'm agnostic on a lot of parts of macroevolution. There are a lot of questions that I have regarding the theory that seem to be unanswered. With that said, accepting the theory as true in its entirety would not affect my faith in the Bible in any way, shape, or form.

I've often said that the belief in a young Earth is about as scientifically literate as saying the distance between Texas and California is 6 inches. Francis Collins was a leader on the Human Genome Project and is on the National Institutes of Health. Alister McGrath is a molecular biophysicist who teaches at Oxford University. C.S. Lewis, is well, C.S. Lewis. What do all of these brilliant minds have in common? Not only are/were they all evengelical Christians, but all accepted the theory of evolution as true. It certainly does not contradict the Old Testament when read figuratively.

So with all of that said, now you have a basic background on my faith. What say you? Did you grow up in a household that was anti-theistic? At what age did you begin to question the belief in a higher power? And perhaps the most important question I could ask you throughout all of this, what evidence would it take for you to accept a theistic worldview?
Posts: 1,563
Bufkin would the whole thing.Bufkin would the whole thing.Bufkin would the whole thing.Bufkin would the whole thing.Bufkin would the whole thing.Bufkin would the whole thing.Bufkin would the whole thing.Bufkin would the whole thing.Bufkin would the whole thing.Bufkin would the whole thing.Bufkin would the whole thing.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2014, 10:55 AM   #31
Dave Lane Dave Lane is offline
Space Cadet and Aczabel
 
Dave Lane's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Kansas City, Mo, USA
Casino cash: $12213
VARSITY
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAC View Post
I've always been interested in the Bible stories. But mostly how they connect with many other stories from other cultures.

I've wondered if they are just myths passed down over time, and if so, who started them and why? Was there a reason behind them?

Or, if they were actual events that took place and the stories have just mutated into a fable.

It's really fascinating to think about.
If you really want to know about the evolution of religions in a fun and interesting 9 minute youtube video just say yes and I'll bump the Creationist thread and put it at the end.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris616 View Post
High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s

Last edited by Dave Lane; 08-08-2014 at 11:01 AM..
Posts: 24,918
Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2014, 11:00 AM   #32
DMAC DMAC is offline
Sloppy with your drink?
 
DMAC's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Springfield, MO
Casino cash: $1992


you can pm me it if you want
Posts: 11,101
DMAC 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.DMAC 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.DMAC 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.DMAC 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.DMAC 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.DMAC 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.DMAC 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.DMAC 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.DMAC 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.DMAC 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.DMAC 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2014, 12:46 PM   #33
mcan mcan is offline
Apr 13,1949 – Dec 15, 2011
 
mcan's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Kansas City, MO
Casino cash: $5759
http://www.ncbi..nih.gov/pubmed/19633921

Link that was given earlier supposedly supporting the belief that evolution says life originated from inert chemicals. (sounds like it's more a link to an article about Darwin's personal beliefs and intuitions about abiogenesis to me, but I'm not in this debate.)
Posts: 3,728
mcan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.mcan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.mcan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.mcan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.mcan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.mcan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.mcan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.mcan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.mcan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.mcan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.mcan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2014, 12:49 PM   #34
listopencil listopencil is offline
sic semper tyrannis
 
listopencil's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In Partibus Infidelium
Casino cash: $10268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post

__________________
"As I walked out the door toward the gate that would lead to my freedom, I knew if I didn't leave my bitterness and hatred behind I'd still be in prison."


Posts: 28,752
listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2014, 02:14 PM   #35
Dave Lane Dave Lane is offline
Space Cadet and Aczabel
 
Dave Lane's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Kansas City, Mo, USA
Casino cash: $12213
VARSITY
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcan View Post
http://www.ncbi..nih.gov/pubmed/19633921

Link that was given earlier supposedly supporting the belief that evolution says life originated from inert chemicals. (sounds like it's more a link to an article about Darwin's personal beliefs and intuitions about abiogenesis to me, but I'm not in this debate.)
Well I'm still waiting for Erics response before I proceed.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris616 View Post
High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
Posts: 24,918
Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2014, 09:38 PM   #36
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
BucPatriot
 
BucEyedPea's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: None of your business
Casino cash: $13547
Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
Your video fails to note how often science has disproved previously accepted science too. It only tells how it has disproved "beliefs" using a silly example. Between the use of the word "beliefs" and coming up with the Medieval era example it implies a certain thing—religion or spiritual things. When it goes on to point out being too attached to a conclusion when science subjects a conclusion to abuse to see if it holds up, I can only think the example Dr. Semmelweis was scorned and rejected by his peers only to have his conclusions vindicated after his death.

Humans are humans. Religion alone doesn't make them biased.
__________________
“The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the legislature.” ~ James Madison, Father of the Constitution
Posts: 58,283
BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2014, 09:56 PM   #37
Taco John Taco John is offline
12on Paul
 
Taco John's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jun 2001
Casino cash: $7377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
Eric, nice opening and I appreciate you laying out where you are as a theist.

Personally I'm sad you accept evolution and the age of the earth as it makes my job much more difficult.
It's amusing to see Dave admit he's outgunned when facing anything but the dimmest of bulbs.
__________________
Ehyeh asher ehyeh.
Posts: 50,964
Taco John is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Taco John is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Taco John is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Taco John is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Taco John is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Taco John is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Taco John is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Taco John is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Taco John is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Taco John is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Taco John is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2014, 10:02 PM   #38
Pawnmower Pawnmower is offline
MVP
 
Pawnmower's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Northern California
Casino cash: $19958
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
It's amusing to see Dave admit he's outgunned when facing anything but the dimmest of bulbs.
It makes you wonder where he supposedly has converted "hundreds" of Christians...

The special olympics?

Tard asylums?


"Oh darn you actually have basically the same beliefs as a majority of modern christians.....that makes my job difficult...I guess I will spout 3 paragraphs about how my mom abandoned me and why I hate her and not address theism at all"
__________________
-------------------
(Your company name here)
Posts: 15,892
Pawnmower has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.Pawnmower has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.Pawnmower has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.Pawnmower has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.Pawnmower has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.Pawnmower has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.Pawnmower has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.Pawnmower has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.Pawnmower has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.Pawnmower has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.Pawnmower has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2014, 10:13 PM   #39
listopencil listopencil is offline
sic semper tyrannis
 
listopencil's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In Partibus Infidelium
Casino cash: $10268
Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Your video fails to note how often science has disproved previously accepted science too.
That is the fundamental point of the video.
__________________
"As I walked out the door toward the gate that would lead to my freedom, I knew if I didn't leave my bitterness and hatred behind I'd still be in prison."


Posts: 28,752
listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2014, 10:13 PM   #40
canoworms canoworms is offline
Starter
 

Join Date: Sep 2013
Casino cash: $5100
Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Your video fails to note how often science has disproved previously accepted science too. It only tells how it has disproved "beliefs" using a silly example. Between the use of the word "beliefs" and coming up with the Medieval era example it implies a certain thing—religion or spiritual things. When it goes on to point out being too attached to a conclusion when science subjects a conclusion to abuse to see if it holds up, I can only think the example Dr. Semmelweis was scorned and rejected by his peers only to have his conclusions vindicated after his death.

Humans are humans. Religion alone doesn't make them biased.
Scientific and religious thought are both products of the human mind. Scientific thought recognizes human ideas can be in error and allows those ideas to be challenged and over turned based on observational evidence. Religious thought is considered to be dogma and is at the very least strongly resistant to challenges based on (mere) observation. Ironically, religious thought turns humans into gods, as ideas from the past are enshrined and not subject to challenges from evidence.

Science disproving science is called progress.

Consider the last 2000 years. The advances in science have increased our life span and greatly improved each and every day that we have to live on this planet. We know so much more about our planet and the universe. Our lives are longer and easier. We are better able to care for our loved ones. Thanks science! Many of the things that were accepted about the universe 2000 years ago --based on religion-- have now been proven false and supplanted with a much more rational understanding. Our lives are inarguably better through the contributions enabled by science.

In what ways have advances in religion improved our lives in the last 2000 years? What new understandings about our lives or our universe have emerged from religious thought over the last 2000 years? Should we return to a first century understanding of the world? First century life styles? If not, then what place does a first century understanding of our place in the universe or a first century understanding of our relationships with one another have in a twenty-first century world? It is time we consider that Gene Roddenberry and Issac Asimov have as much to say to us regarding these questions as the Bible.
Posts: 60
canoworms is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutcanoworms is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutcanoworms is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutcanoworms is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutcanoworms is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutcanoworms is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutcanoworms is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutcanoworms is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutcanoworms is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutcanoworms is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutcanoworms is the dumbass Milkman is always talking about
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2014, 10:16 PM   #41
BigCatDaddy BigCatDaddy is offline
Kicking Ass and Chewing Bubble
 
BigCatDaddy's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: St. Joseph
Casino cash: $9073
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
Finally one of your post worth seeing.
__________________
"I voiced my opinion and announced I was forced to suck my babysitter's son's cock" - Red Guerilla (BlackBob) (Now known as CallMeSquidward) (Now known as John Dope)
Posts: 12,678
BigCatDaddy threw an interception on a screen pass.BigCatDaddy threw an interception on a screen pass.BigCatDaddy threw an interception on a screen pass.BigCatDaddy threw an interception on a screen pass.BigCatDaddy threw an interception on a screen pass.BigCatDaddy threw an interception on a screen pass.BigCatDaddy threw an interception on a screen pass.BigCatDaddy threw an interception on a screen pass.BigCatDaddy threw an interception on a screen pass.BigCatDaddy threw an interception on a screen pass.BigCatDaddy threw an interception on a screen pass.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2014, 11:28 PM   #42
Bufkin Bufkin is offline
Eat shit, asshole
 
Bufkin's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2014
Casino cash: $11019
I just spent an hour responding to a few different quotes, but accidentally closed it out and I can't get the tab to restore. Will try again in the morning. Sorry for the tardy response. After tomorrow, I should be able to respond within an hour or so. Was at the game last night and have been swamped today with family.
__________________
KC ROYALS: 2014 ALCS CHAMPIONS
Posts: 1,563
Bufkin would the whole thing.Bufkin would the whole thing.Bufkin would the whole thing.Bufkin would the whole thing.Bufkin would the whole thing.Bufkin would the whole thing.Bufkin would the whole thing.Bufkin would the whole thing.Bufkin would the whole thing.Bufkin would the whole thing.Bufkin would the whole thing.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2014, 11:50 PM   #43
Dave Lane Dave Lane is offline
Space Cadet and Aczabel
 
Dave Lane's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Kansas City, Mo, USA
Casino cash: $12213
VARSITY
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
It's amusing to see Dave admit he's outgunned when facing anything but the dimmest of bulbs.
Thats why we have you here, to make me not only look good but GREAT!!!

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris616 View Post
High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
Posts: 24,918
Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2014, 05:37 AM   #44
Brainiac Brainiac is offline
Veteran
 
Brainiac's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Lenexa, KS
Casino cash: $7396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
Thats why we have you here, to make me not only look good but GREAT!!!

LOL

TJ teed that up nicely for you.
Posts: 4,376
Brainiac is too fat/Omaha.Brainiac is too fat/Omaha.Brainiac is too fat/Omaha.Brainiac is too fat/Omaha.Brainiac is too fat/Omaha.Brainiac is too fat/Omaha.Brainiac is too fat/Omaha.Brainiac is too fat/Omaha.Brainiac is too fat/Omaha.Brainiac is too fat/Omaha.Brainiac is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2014, 07:56 AM   #45
RedNeckRaider RedNeckRaider is offline
Got highway?
 
RedNeckRaider's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Close to the big pond~
Casino cash: $7349
"eatin' pussy and kickin' ass" and preaching the bible. This place never changes~
__________________
It would indeed be a tragedy if the history of the human race proved to be nothing more than the story of an ape playing with a box of matches on a petrol dump.
David Ormsby Gore~
Posts: 24,204
RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:18 AM.


This is a test for a client's site.
A new website that shows member-created construction site listings that need fill or have excess fill. Dirt Monkey @ https://DirtMonkey.net
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.