Creed Humphrey Extension with Chiefs

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Nobody yet.

And Creed hasn't cost any money yet.

The point isn't that it's impacted us to this stage as the contract hasn't kicked in. It's that it very well COULD going forward and this season (and previous ones) demonstrate very clearly how.

A guy like Cam Robinson is going to be more difficult for us to sign and firm up the LT position for the next several years because we'll have Creed's contract on the books instead.

Nobody's frustrated by what the contract HAS done - it hasn't started yet. The conversation is as to what the contract COULD do in the future.

It won’t start kicking in until 2026. Chris, Kelce and Thuney will all be gone. Sure we’ll have paid McDuffie and Bolton but space will be there.

And yeah I get the premise of this point. I think it applies better to Nick Bolton, who is not the best at his position like Creed Humphrey.

Edit-Chris will likely be gone in 2027 not 2026

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by RunKC

It won’t start kicking in until 2026. Chris, Kelce and Thuney will all be gone. Sure we’ll have paid McDuffie and Bolton but space will be there.

And yeah I get the premise of this point. I think it applies better to Nick Bolton, who is not the best at his position like Creed Humphrey.

I still feel like we're hand-waiving his impact on how good our run defense has been this year.

Bolton's going to be a major part of that.

If we try Tranquil at that spot next year, our run defense is going to suck eggs.

May be necessary; there's only so much money to go around. But I think it will absolutely be impactful.

[BWillie]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Nobody yet.

And Creed hasn't cost any money yet.

The point isn't that it's impacted us to this stage as the contract hasn't kicked in. It's that it very well COULD going forward and this season (and previous ones) demonstrate very clearly how.

A guy like Cam Robinson is going to be more difficult for us to sign and firm up the LT position for the next several years because we'll have Creed's contract on the books instead.

Nobody's frustrated by what the contract HAS done - it hasn't started yet. The conversation is as to what the contract COULD do in the future.

Id argue it is affecting our decision making this year because we need to position ourselves in the future for certain positions & contracts. Already having Creed on the books going forward hampers us to some degree even this year when in my opinion it was not a needed signing. I'm not disagreeing just my point of view.

[threebag]

You’d think the Mahomes Affect could draw a top tackle in? Maybe some other positions? Is not having a ring worth the salary?

[JPH83]

You can get away with paying a couple of guys on the OL elite money, even if it's centre and guard. If you're paying your RT elite money to be not good at all, that's where the problem contract is.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by JPH83

You can get away with paying a couple of guys on the OL elite money, even if it's centre and guard. If you're paying your RT elite money to be not good at all, that's where the problem contract is.

The question isn't what you can 'get away with' -- it's what makes sense.

Terron Armstead signed for 5/$75 million -- that's a $15 million AAV. The offense is better with Armstead at LT and Slappy McSlapdick at C. We know this because we've SEEN this.

This offense was just fine with Austin Reiter at C. And he's as replaceable as they get. He's the Wanya Morris of Cs. He just plays a position that doesn't matter nearly as much.

[JPH83]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

The question isn't what you can 'get away with' -- it's what makes sense.

Terron Armstead signed for 5/$75 million -- that's a $15 million AAV. The offense is better with Armstead at LT and Slappy McSlapdick at C. We know this because we've SEEN this.

This offense was just fine with Austin Reiter at C. And he's as replaceable as they get. He's the Wanya Morris of Cs. He just plays a position that doesn't matter nearly as much.

I'm not saying the Creed contract will be a wise move, I'm saying we didn't get Terron Armstead at OT we got someone playing worse for more, and that is the egregious albatross of a contract from which other issues derive.

Should we have compounded this by overpaying a C, nope, probably not.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by JPH83

I'm not saying the Creed contract will be a wise move, I'm saying we didn't get Terron Armstead at OT we got someone playing worse for more, and that is the egregious albatross of a contract from which other issues derive.

Should we have compounded this by overpaying a C, nope, probably not.

Not even close.

Taylor isn't the reason Morris has sucked. And Taylor isn't playing poorly - he's been pretty much average in pass protection.

[JPH83]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Not even close.

Taylor isn't the reason Morris has sucked. And Taylor isn't playing poorly - he's been pretty much average in pass protection.

And as you said, Smith's been solid in pass pro, he's just also not been paid a boatload. But yes, LT has been the disaster, and the problem in affording an even average one will be the combination of an overpaid elite C, and an overpaid average RT

[Dante84]

Jawaan is the biggest albatross on our cap, dollars for production. Similar to Frank a few years back.

With that said, I'd bet every team in the league has at least one contract that they'd like to have back at any given time.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Dante84

Jawaan is the biggest albatross on our cap, dollars for production. Similar to Frank a few years back.

With that said, I'd bet every team in the league has at least one contract that they'd like to have back at any given time.

Again - not even close.

Frank Clark cost a shitload of cap space to be BAD at football.

Taylor's just been average. Not bad, not drunk, not injured. Just average.

And even if you want to put stock in "Post-season Frank" -- Taylor was extremely good in the post-season last year.

Taylor is more akin to Sammy Watkins in that he's overpaid, but the market for the position was stout in FA. Both guys were signed on projections that didn't materialize to the extent hoped. And both guys were good, important players for the team.

When Clark wasn't on the field, the team wasn't noticeably worse. If you took Taylor off this OL, as bad as things are at the moment, they'd be exponentially worse without him.

It's not a close comparison at all.

[Dante84]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Again - not even close.

Frank Clark cost a shitload of cap space to be BAD at football.

Taylor's just been average. Not bad, not drunk, not injured. Just average.

And even if you want to put stock in "Post-season Frank" -- Taylor was extremely good in the post-season last year.

Taylor is more akin to Sammy Watkins in that he's overpaid, but the market for the position was stout in FA. Both guys were signed on projections that didn't materialize to the extent hoped. And both guys were good, important players for the team.

When Clark wasn't on the field, the team wasn't noticeably worse. If you took Taylor off this OL, as bad as things are at the moment, they'd be exponentially worse without him.

It's not a close comparison at all.

What's a good metric with which to judge Taylor's performance relative to his pay? I'd also like to see this compared to RT's exclusively, rather than a list that includes LT's who have a substantially higher average contract value.

I know his pass blocking has been average, but I'd also be curious to see his impact on stalled drives, missed points, lost yards, etc... due to penalties.

Is it EPA?

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Dante84

What's a good metric with which to judge Taylor's performance relative to his pay? I'd also like to see this compared to RT's exclusively, rather than a list that includes LT's who have a substantially higher average contract value.

I know his pass blocking has been average, but I'd also be curious to see his impact on stalled drives, missed points, lost yards, etc... due to penalties.

Is it EPA?

I've looked primarily at pass block win rates. Mostly because I don't really care about his run blocking (I know I should. Still don't).

As for LT vs. RT -- it just has much less impact on my analysis given that A) They're both extremely expensive now and B) We need our RT to be able to block as well as our LT because we put our TE off the line as often as we do.

Now I think a good argument exists that the right answer would've been to retain Wylie at a much lower figure than Taylor and then sign, say, Armstead. But at the time Armstead signed, we still had OBJr.

When we signed Taylor, the situation we found ourselves in was one where we HAD to get a guy who at least had the tools to play LT to say 'yes'. Wylie didn't. Taylor does have the physical tools to do that job.

And someone would've paid him LT money, IMO. So again, the market is what the market is. LT vs. RT becomes less and less relevant at that point.

The options were pretty damn limited when we declined to Franchise Brown, couldn't get a reasonable extension done and ultimately entered the off-season without a single OT under contract. We put ourselves in quite a pickle.

[-King-]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I've looked primarily at pass block win rates. Mostly because I don't really care about his run blocking (I know I should. Still don't).

As for LT vs. RT -- it just has much less impact on my analysis given that A) They're both extremely expensive now and B) We need our RT to be able to block as well as our LT because we put our TE off the line as often as we do.

Now I think a good argument exists that the right answer would've been to retain Wylie at a much lower figure than Taylor and then sign, say, Armstead. But at the time Armstead signed, we still had OBJr.

When we signed Taylor, the situation we found ourselves in was one where we HAD to get a guy who at least had the tools to play LT to say 'yes'. Wylie didn't. Taylor does have the physical tools to do that job.

And someone would've paid him LT money, IMO. So again, the market is what the market is. LT vs. RT becomes less and less relevant at that point.

The options were pretty damn limited when we declined to Franchise Brown, couldn't get a reasonable extension done and ultimately entered the off-season without a single OT under contract. We put ourselves in quite a pickle.

When we signed Taylor, they made it seem like he would be the LT and we were all sure the contract indicated that he was the LT. And then....he never was. And they never tried him there even with the cluster**** that had been this season at that position. I wonder what happened.

[dlphg9]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I've looked primarily at pass block win rates. Mostly because I don't really care about his run blocking (I know I should. Still don't).

As for LT vs. RT -- it just has much less impact on my analysis given that A) They're both extremely expensive now and B) We need our RT to be able to block as well as our LT because we put our TE off the line as often as we do.

Now I think a good argument exists that the right answer would've been to retain Wylie at a much lower figure than Taylor and then sign, say, Armstead. But at the time Armstead signed, we still had OBJr.

When we signed Taylor, the situation we found ourselves in was one where we HAD to get a guy who at least had the tools to play LT to say 'yes'. Wylie didn't. Taylor does have the physical tools to do that job.

And someone would've paid him LT money, IMO. So again, the market is what the market is. LT vs. RT becomes less and less relevant at that point.

The options were pretty damn limited when we declined to Franchise Brown, couldn't get a reasonable extension done and ultimately entered the off-season without a single OT under contract. We put ourselves in quite a pickle.

I don't know what to even think about Pass Block Win Rate. If you look at those stats right now for the year you will see for interior lineman we have:

Thuney at #1 with only 6 pressures allowed 98% win rate
Creed at #3 with 11 pressures allowed 97% win rate
Trey at #17 with 18 pressures allowed 95% win rate

Then at tackle we have:

Taylor at #13 with 24 pressures allowed and 92% win rate

As a team we are 2nd (72%) in pass block win rate and 2nd (74%) in run block win rate.

So one bad spot on this offensive line has completely ****ed this offense to hell? Patrick Mahomes can't handle one weak link when supposedly the other 4 guys are some of the best at protecting him?

****ing Cincinnati has the 29th (52%) pass block win rate and Joe Burrow looks like an MVP.

So either the metric is flawed some way or something is wrong with what we are doing with the plays or something is wrong with Mahomes.