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Old 09-16-2006, 12:53 AM  
Logical Logical is offline
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Osama Bin Bush

I wish I could take credit for the thread title but it was an analogy I heard on a panel show.

Bush has started to emphasize our virtuous religious nation as being a certainty of the rightenous of his acts,, such as torture, Iraq and the fighting the evil of Islamic Facism. Does this sound familiar in reverse.

Bin Laden emphasizes the virtuous nature of Islam, justifies his action of torture, terrrorist war acts and the evil of the Great Satan in the name of absolute right.

Kind of worrisome if you really analyze it. The only other Presidents I recall being sure of our moral rightenous to the point of not having some self doubt were Lyndon Johnson and Richard Nixon in the modern era. The greats T Roosevelt, F Roosevelt, Truman, Eisenhower, etc did not justify all actions with religious superiority and the idea that the US can only do good. That is a scary precept, certainty of rightenous is a hallmark of many of the worst tyranies in history.

Last edited by Logical; 09-16-2006 at 05:40 AM..
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Old 09-16-2006, 07:29 PM   #31
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Bill "paper tiger' Clinton.
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Old 09-16-2006, 08:15 PM   #32
SCChief SCChief is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banyon
I guess you get what you expect. Set expectations as low as possible and this is what we get.

I expect more out of the leader of the free world than out of my clients.

If John Kerry or Bill Clinton had "flip-flopped" on an issue as big as OBL, I'm sure you'd be leading the mob with the torches.
And which of the two of you would probably be the one defending Mr. Kerry or Mr. Clinton?

That is called choosing sides. Right or wrong, that is the nature of politics.

Though I do agree that the priorities seem to change pretty often. Reagan is the only President I have seen in my relatively-short politically aware life who has actually stuck to his guns until the target was completely destroyed. Welcome to the age of online opinion polls and blogging. The mood of the online populace tends to dictate the direction of the politicians in this world. Plus... NO ONE is held accountable anymore. Whether what they do is morally, politically or legally reprehensible... they all seem to get away with it.

Sad really.
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Old 09-16-2006, 08:18 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banyon
I guess you get what you expect. Set expectations as low as possible and this is what we get.

I expect more out of the leader of the free world than out of my clients.

If John Kerry or Bill Clinton had "flip-flopped" on an issue as big as OBL, I'm sure you'd be leading the mob with the torches.
Though... in truth... a lot of the politicians out there probably are not much more morally stable than your clients.
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Old 09-16-2006, 08:37 PM   #34
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Old 09-16-2006, 09:14 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCChief
Reagan is the only President I have seen in my relatively-short politically aware life who has actually stuck to his guns until the target was completely destroyed.
This would be Ronald "Beruit Skedaddle" Reagan?

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Old 09-16-2006, 09:51 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adept Havelock
This would be Ronald "Beruit Skedaddle" Reagan?

OK... so he failed to finish the job started by the Carter administration (the UN peacekeeping force was established in 1978, prior to Reagan coming into office). But he did state that he would not leave prior to pulling the Marines out.

I never said he was perfect... I just said he was the only President I have seen yet who has actually finished what he started. Perhaps I should have been a bit more elaborate.
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Old 09-16-2006, 10:44 PM   #37
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Bush/Wolfowitz Doctrine is far more belligerent than the Reagan Doctrine.

Quote:
”History teaches that war begins when governments believe the price of aggression is cheap.”— Ronald Reagan

Quote:
"Perhaps we didn't appreciate fully enough the depth of the hatred and the complexity of the problems that made the Middle East such a jungle. Perhaps the idea of a suicide car bomber committing mass murder to gain instant entry to Paradise was so foreign to our own values and consciousness that it did not create in us the concern for the Marines' safety that it should have. In the weeks immediately after the bombing, I believed the last thing that we should do was turn tail and leave. Yet the irrationality of Middle Eastern politics forced us to rethink our policy there. If there would be some rethinking of policy before our men die, we would be a lot better off. If that policy had changed towards more of a neutral position and neutrality, those 241 Marines would be alive today." Ronald Reagan's Autobiography

Post #49
Fascism Thread: Terrorism drops in response to our military restraint
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Old 09-16-2006, 11:09 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCChief
And which of the two of you would probably be the one defending Mr. Kerry or Mr. Clinton?

That is called choosing sides. Right or wrong, that is the nature of politics.

Though I do agree that the priorities seem to change pretty often. Reagan is the only President I have seen in my relatively-short politically aware life who has actually stuck to his guns until the target was completely destroyed. Welcome to the age of online opinion polls and blogging. The mood of the online populace tends to dictate the direction of the politicians in this world. Plus... NO ONE is held accountable anymore. Whether what they do is morally, politically or legally reprehensible... they all seem to get away with it.

Sad really.
Sad, yes. But true.

It's what we get when we, as citizens, DEMAND "democracy."




"Democracy: the worse form of government in the world. Except for all the others."
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Old 09-16-2006, 11:23 PM   #39
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Old 09-16-2006, 11:34 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea
It's a good thing America was founded as a Republic..."if you can keep it." — BEN FRANKLIN

Ah-ha. The key question: have we "kept it?"

Focus groups, polling, and modern concepts of democracy (direct democracy, and "power to the people") have moved us from a republic toward a more genuinely democratic government.

I'll leave you to decide whether or not that's been a good thing....
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Old 09-17-2006, 12:33 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter
Focus groups, polling, and modern concepts of democracy (direct democracy, and "power to the people") have moved us from a republic toward a more genuinely democratic government.
I don't know what you've been smoking, but I'd like some! We're not even in the same universe as a "power to the people" concept.
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Old 09-17-2006, 12:37 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightwish
I don't know what you've been smoking, but I'd like some! We're not even in the same universe as a "power to the people" concept.
I said "closer"--as close as 300 million people can be.


...our governmetn is poll, survey, and focus group driven.

Can you really deny that????

And look where it has gotten us......
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Old 09-17-2006, 12:41 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter
...our governmetn is poll, survey, and focus group driven
Our media is poll, survey and focus group driven. Our government doesn't seem to give two craps about the polls, surveys or focus groups. They do their own thing, regardless of how "the people" feel about it.
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Old 09-17-2006, 12:49 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightwish
Our media is poll, survey and focus group driven. Our government doesn't seem to give two craps about the polls, surveys or focus groups. They do their own thing, regardless of how "the people" feel about it.
You need to pay attention to stuff during ELECTION years; it's the only stuff that matters....

Such a lack of focus explains a lot about your views.....
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Old 09-17-2006, 01:05 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter
You need to pay attention to stuff during ELECTION years; it's the only stuff that matters....
On the contrary, the election years are the only ones that DON'T matter. Those are the years the government puts on a mask for the people. It's the non-election years when you get to see their real faces.
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