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Old 10-04-2007, 03:24 PM  
irishjayhawk irishjayhawk is offline
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Reasons I'm skeptic about Ron Paul

Please, correct me or educate me on the candidacy of Ron Paul. I want to believe he's the real deal. Of course, compared with what we have now, almost anything is better. Save, though, for Hillary, Mr. 9/11 and Sam Brownback (aka Mr. Talking Embryos).

Anyway, to the point: I want to believe but the more I read the more skeptical I become. Not because I don't think he can get the nomination but because I doubt some of his stances.

The first and foremost is his stance on the Separation of Church and State.

Quote:
The notion of a rigid separation between church and state has no basis in either the text of the Constitution or the writings of our Founding Fathers. On the contrary, our Foundersí political views were strongly informed by their religious beliefs. Certainly the drafters of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, both replete with references to God, would be aghast at the federal governmentís hostility to religion. The establishment clause of the First Amendment was simply intended to forbid the creation of an official state church like the Church of England, not to drive religion out of public life. The Founding Fathers envisioned a robustly Christian yet religiously tolerant America, with churches serving as vital institutions that would eclipse the state in importance. Throughout our nationís history, churches have done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility. Moral and civil individuals are largely governed by their own sense of right and wrong, and hence have little need for external government. This is the real reason the collectivist Left hates religion: Churches as institutions compete with the state for the peopleís allegiance, and many devout people put their faith in God before their faith in the state. Knowing this, the secularists wage an ongoing war against religion, chipping away bit by bit at our nationís Christian heritage. Christmas itself may soon be a casualty of that war.
VOTING RECORD
Things that concern me
Quote:
Voted NO on allowing Courts to decide on "God" in Pledge of Allegiance. (Jul 2006)
Supports a Constitutional Amendment for school prayer. (May 1997)
#Voted NO on allowing vouchers in DC schools. (Aug 1998)
#Voted YES on vouchers for private & parochial schools. (Nov 1997)
# Why the change here?
Embryonic stem cell programs not constitionally authorized. (May 2007)
Voted NO on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines. (Jan 2007)
Voted NO on allowing human embryonic stem cell research. (May 2005)
Voted NO on criminalizing oil cartels like OPEC. (May 2007)
Voted NO on starting implementation of Kyoto Protocol. (Jun 2000)
Voted NO on establishing nationwide AMBER alert system for missing kids. (Apr 2003)
Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits about obesity against food providers. (Oct 2005)
Voted YES on continuing military recruitment on college campuses. (Feb 2005)
Voted NO on establishing "network neutrality" (non-tiered Internet). (Jun 2006)
That's all for now.
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Old 10-10-2007, 08:41 PM   #121
irishjayhawk irishjayhawk is offline
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This is the reason I didn't like the Roe v Wade view by Paul.

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The following summary is provided by the Congressional Research Service, which is a nonpartisan government entity that serves Congress and is run by the Library of Congress. The summary is taken from the official website THOMAS.
1/5/2007--Introduced.
We the People Act - Prohibits the Supreme Court and each federal court from adjudicating any claim or relying on judicial decisions involving: (1) state or local laws, regulations, or policies concerning the free exercise or establishment of religion; (2) the right of privacy, including issues of sexual practices, orientation, or reproduction; or (3) the right to marry without regard to sex or sexual orientation where based upon equal protection of the laws.
Allows the Supreme Court and the federal courts to determine the constitutionality of federal statutes, administrative rules, or procedures in considering cases arising under the Constitution. Prohibits the Supreme Court and the federal courts from issuing any ruling that appropriates or expends money, imposes taxes, or otherwise interferes with the legislative functions or administrative discretion of the states.
Authorizes any party or intervener in matters before any federal court, including the Supreme Court, to challenge the jurisdiction of the court under this Act.
Provides that the violation of this Act by any justice or judge is an impeachable offense and a material breach of good behavior subject to removal.
Negates as binding precedent on the state courts any federal court decision that relates to an issue removed from federal jurisdiction by this Act.
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-300

Sorry, but without the courts we might still have a segregated school system.
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Old 10-10-2007, 09:50 PM   #122
Taco John Taco John is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishjayhawk
Okay, so let me try to understand this.

Passing net neutrality laws would put the internet in the hands of the government. Even though they can say it cannot be regulated (as it is now) by any corporation AND government entity. And people are against that?


I don't know about anybody else, but I am. I am always against federally centralized control. Are you telling me that you want Bush in charge of the Internet?
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Old 10-10-2007, 10:30 PM   #123
irishjayhawk irishjayhawk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John
I don't know about anybody else, but I am. I am always against federally centralized control. Are you telling me that you want Bush in charge of the Internet?
That's not what I said. Reread it. Net Neutrality as I understood it is that the government passes legislature that makes sure the net stays neutral. That is, no corporations OR the government maintains or has any say/control over it.
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Old 10-10-2007, 10:57 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishjayhawk
That's not what I said. Reread it. Net Neutrality as I understood it is that the government passes legislature that makes sure the net stays neutral. That is, no corporations OR the government maintains or has any say/control over it.


Ah... Trust them... They know what they're doing. Who knows what they're doing better than the government. If we want the Internet to truly be free we need to REGULATE it.

Uhhhhh... What's the problem with the Internet now?
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Old 10-10-2007, 11:05 PM   #125
irishjayhawk irishjayhawk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John
Ah... Trust them... They know what they're doing. Who knows what they're doing better than the government. If we want the Internet to truly be free we need to REGULATE it.

Uhhhhh... What's the problem with the Internet now?
There is nothing with it right now. However, I doubt that will last. We'll have an internet similar to this:



I really don't care who does what if we can avoid that.
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Old 10-10-2007, 11:22 PM   #126
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So what's the problem there? You're worried about these sites slitting their own throats and providing opportunities for competing sites to rise up and take their place?

Or you just want everything handed to you for free, and don't want to see anyone make money from their efforts.

Or maybe, you just like the Internet the way it is, and want to do everything you can to stifle innovation. Regulation is a good way to do that. Eventually the innovators will leave for greener pastures.

I love how they call them "progressives" when what a progressive really does is stifle progress.
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Old 10-10-2007, 11:24 PM   #127
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Also, your model there is nothing more than a baseless fear mongering campaign to scare people into giving the Internet to the government. The end goal is to tax it for the service of "regulating" it for us.

It's the Internet. People are always going to be willing to offer service for free. If others want to create a model where you have to pay to get their services in a package deal, why should the government stop them? Especially if people are willing to pay...
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Old 10-11-2007, 01:16 AM   #128
irishjayhawk irishjayhawk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John
So what's the problem there? You're worried about these sites slitting their own throats and providing opportunities for competing sites to rise up and take their place?

Or you just want everything handed to you for free, and don't want to see anyone make money from their efforts.

Or maybe, you just like the Internet the way it is, and want to do everything you can to stifle innovation. Regulation is a good way to do that. Eventually the innovators will leave for greener pastures.

I love how they call them "progressives" when what a progressive really does is stifle progress.
Maybe I'm misreading you but the sites aren't what are to be looked at in the diagram. It's the ISPs limiting what sites you can view.

So, attsucks.com wouldn't be able to be gotten to on unless they paid for ultra service - or even perhaps ever.
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Old 10-11-2007, 01:18 AM   #129
irishjayhawk irishjayhawk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John
Also, your model there is nothing more than a baseless fear mongering campaign to scare people into giving the Internet to the government. The end goal is to tax it for the service of "regulating" it for us.

It's the Internet. People are always going to be willing to offer service for free. If others want to create a model where you have to pay to get their services in a package deal, why should the government stop them? Especially if people are willing to pay...
Yeah, I don't think I'm misreading you. It's not the SITES. Google/Yahoo/etc they're all against it. It's them against the ISPs.
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Old 10-11-2007, 01:20 AM   #130
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Ron Paul is a protest candidate. No more, no less.
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Old 10-11-2007, 01:45 AM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John
I don't know about anybody else, but I am. I am always against federally centralized control. Are you telling me that you want Bush in charge of the Internet?
I'm with you on this.
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Old 10-11-2007, 01:47 AM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu
I'm with you on this.
I agree. It's just he's misreading, I think, what net neutrality does. Or is.
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Old 10-11-2007, 01:51 AM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishjayhawk
Yeah, I don't think I'm misreading you. It's not the SITES. Google/Yahoo/etc they're all against it. It's them against the ISPs.
What that looks like is a group of content providers seeking big government protection from the people who actually own the hardware. If Yahoo is popular enough and ISP's start restricting access to them, the ISP that provides access will make a killing.
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Old 10-11-2007, 01:52 AM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishjayhawk
I agree. It's just he's misreading, I think, what net neutrality does. Or is.
I don't think he's misreading it at all. He may be simplifying it, but that's what it boils down to.
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Old 10-11-2007, 05:12 AM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins
Ron Paul is a protest candidate. No more, no less.

I completely agree.

What you have to consider is that Dr. Paul's campaign is a political dream come true for a lot of people out here. As proof of that, in the first ten days of the fourth quarter, he's already raised just over half of what Huckabee did all of last 3rd quarter. Yesterday he had a $100,000 dollar day online.

Ron Paul's campaign is not going away. At some point in time the MSM (and people and general) are going to have to recognize the facts here. We have a fiscal conservative who is garnering huge amounts of people-powered cash, talking about getting out of the war, while returning to our Constitutional roots. His voting record is as stellar in its adherence to Constitutional principle as you could ever imagine a voting record could be. Oh yeah, and he doesn't accept money from special interests. Oh, and one more thing: the Ron Paul package comes tremendously steeped in Reagan tridition. Reagan's genial conservativism proved to be a powerfully winning formula for drawing people on both sides of the aisle. Ron Paul has already proven that the formula works like a charm in two seperate elections in Texas, one where (as an underdog) he beat a well funded Democrat encumbant, and another where he beat a well funded Republican.

Ron Paul's Revolution isn't just a slogan. Believe it or not, there is radical change being peacefully born in our political system. The establishment is only going to be able to hide and marginalize Paul's campaign for so long. He's going to start spending money soon. He hasn't spent hardly a dime yet and he's gained ground in nearly every poll you can point to over the last six months (especially in primary states). These poll numbers have risen thanks to his debate performances, his non-stop touring across the states -- from Washington DC, to Washington State -- and his most powerful, (yet thus far ignored superweapon): the most free, and abundant political advertising that a candidate has ever enjoyed having in the history of political advertising.

People are going to find him... And when they do, they're going to find that this man is an open book. He's not afraid to talk at length about his principles to anyone who will listen, unabashedly and consistently speaking truth to power. With each debate, his willingness to stand up against popular and popularly backwards thought is going to gain him a lot of fans on both the left and the right. And as these reasonable folks explore their feelings of agreement on different issues (everybody in America strongly agrees with Ron Paul on at least one core issue that's important to them), those who speak out about their political confusion and raise discussion about it will find themselves being brow-beat and driven out of the party by loyalists who demand near fealty to their flawed mainstream candidates (you can witness this already happening every day on RedState, FreeRepublic, or Daily Kos).

If Ron Paul doesn't get the Republican nomination, you have to remember that Ross Perot got 18% of the vote as a third party candidate; a third party in which he had just invented on the spot -- the reform party. Dr. Paul already has an existing political party to funnel his supporters into. Ron Paul is the only candidate who's spot in the post primary debates is cemented. Everyone else still has to get by the primaries. All he has to do make a decent showing in the primaries and then say yes to the supporters who have donated and helped him carry the cause this far by accepting the Libertarian party nomination in May. And that's when the fireworks will really begin, because Ron Paul out-flanks both sides of the establishment candidates on issues that are crucial to their bases. Hillary and Rudy vs. Ron Paul in a debate is going to be a dream come true. It's going to be beautiful watching them double talk on the core issues of their base, while Ron Paul talks about things like State's Rights, local controls, less government, fewer taxes, more personal liberty, a fundamentally sound economy, and peace through free and abundant commerce.

And when election day comes, and people are in that voting booth with the curtain closed, and nothing but themselves, their United States ballot, and their own personal best interests in mind, they're going to find themselves faced with an unfamiliar reality: that they have a decision to make, and they're not making a choice between Hillary and Rudy (the lesser of two evils), but that they're making a decision between Hillary and Ron Paul, and Rudy and Ron Paul.

And they're going to remember how their party has treated them. They're going to remember how the system has treated them. They're going to remember.

And I'll tell you what, brother.

They're going to protest.


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