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Old 09-12-2009, 09:50 AM  
BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
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It's time for large # of troops to GTFO of Afghanistan.

It's a no win situation for us. Brave Americans are fighting a war in which there is no hope of winning. In this type of war there will never be a "winner". All we are doing is providing easy targets for Taliban to kill.

We can't just ignore military history there and say our effort will be different.

We went into Afganistan with 1,300 troops. When the Taliban fell we had 2.500 troops on the ground. We now have 60,000 troops on the ground and the Taliban control 40-70% of the country's territory.

The new commander in Afghanistan says he sees no evidence of a large Al-Quaeda presense in Afghanistan. That is and will always be the only reason for us to be in Afghanistan. The only reason we are there in the first place. The only reason to sacrifice American lives.

I think we should hunt down and kill every single member of Al=Quaeda, no matter where they are hiding.

We shouldn't be sacrificing American lives to nation build in Afghanistan. Yeah, they want to go back to the 12th century but why should we sacrifice American lives to keep that from happening? Not worth it.

But if we leave the Taliban will take over swiftly and then provide a safe -haven for Al-Quaeda? We don't let that happen. We put cruise millsle up their azz. We send out the drones. We use special forces to take them out.

Edited:

I'm convinced that this is the right decision for these reasons.
  • We can't nation build in Afghanistan. We shouldn't be using our resources and sacrificing our troops to help them. Thats not why we are there. $300 billion spent so far. 900 brave Americans dead. Entering it's 9th year. Just when will it be enough?
  • The argument that the Taliban and Al-Quaeda will just come back may be true but there are several problems with that. Al-Quaeda can be anywhere in the world. So we keep them out of Afghanistan, they show up in Pakistan, Somalia, where ever. I read there is only 100 Al-Quaeda operatives in Afghanistan. There are probably more than that in the USA. If we keep them out of Afghanistan. they will just go some other place. We need a 21st century approach. We won't be able to defeat Al-Quaeda with conventional weapons and strategy. We can always go back in with surgical strikes to take out prime targets and more large scale attacks to prevent Al-Quaeda from establishing bases again. We can't let 100,000 Americans become easy to reach targets for Al-Quaeda.
  • The government is corrupt beyond repair. For those who want to nation build, how can you with a totally corrupt government that the people don't trust? Nation building won't work no matter how many troops or how much money you throw at the problem with a corrupt government distrusted by the people.
  • Afghanistan has no resources. What exactly are they going to make money at, build their country with? It would be a transfer of wealth from us to them.
  • The population outside of Kabul is run by drug overlords. The majority of the population works in the poppy fields because its the only way they can feed their family. How are we going to change that? Provide jobs for those people to feed their families? A lot of those poppy field profits are going right to the Taliban. Just how are you going to end this cycle without a major infusion of American money. Again, a transfer of wealth.

Last edited by BigRedChief; 10-27-2009 at 02:55 PM..
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Old 09-12-2009, 03:13 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Calcountry View Post
TO THE DEATH!

I could give a fug how big the MOOSLIMS are.
Precisely my point. Even if it doesn't work.
I'd prefer a workable solution not a dramatization of how macho angry we are. Bulls in china shops don't get the right targets or results. They even hurt themselves.

Keep it up! It's one of the reasons the Rs are out of power. Polls show both wars are not favored anymore by the people.
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Old 09-12-2009, 03:14 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
Tell that to Kotter. Kotter believes half measures are practical.
So does patteeu, at least on domestic issues. It's pragmatism.
About the only place he is totally unpragmatic is on this war.
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Old 09-12-2009, 03:38 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
It's a no win situation for us. Brave Americans are fighting a war in which there is no hope of winning. In this type of war there will never be a "winner". All we are doing is providing easy targets for Taliban to kill.

We can't just ignore military history there and say our effort will be different.

We went into Afganistan with 1,300 troops. When the Taliban fell we had 2.500 troops on the ground. We now have 60,000 troops on the ground and the Taliban control 40-70% of the country's territory.

The new commander in Afghanistan says he sees no evidence of a large Al-Quaeda presense in Afghanistan. That is and will always be the only reason for us to be in Afghanistan. The only reason we are there in the first place. The only reason to sacrifice American lives.

I think we should hunt down and kill every single member of Al=Quaeda, no matter where they are hiding.

We shouldn't be sacrificing American lives to nation build in Afghanistan. Yeah, they want to go back to the 12th century but why should we sacrifice American lives to keep that from happening? Not worth it.

But if we leave the Taliban will take over swiftly and then provide a safe -haven for Al-Quaeda? We don't let that happen. We put cruise millsle up their azz. We send out the drones. We use special forces to take them out.

Obama's war.
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Old 09-12-2009, 03:43 PM   #49
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Afghanistan is a proxy for Pakistan. We, along with India, need to squash Pakistan from east and west. Throw in China, too. They've had enough of this shit for far too long on their western border.
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Old 09-12-2009, 04:12 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
So does patteeu, at least on domestic issues. It's pragmatism.
About the only place he is totally unpragmatic is on this war.
Yeah, Mr. Kotter and I are like twins when it comes to politics.
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Old 09-12-2009, 04:14 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Stewie View Post
Afghanistan is a proxy for Pakistan. We, along with India, need to squash Pakistan from east and west. Throw in China, too. They've had enough of this shit for far too long on their western border.
Hmmm... except some muslim with an itchy trigger finger has it on a button that can launch nukes. And think about how much more economically powerful India and China get with Pakistan gone.
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Old 09-12-2009, 05:35 PM   #52
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You need foot soldiers on the ground. there are thousands upon thousands of terrorists in the tribal regions of pakistan just waiting for us to leave so they can flock into Afghanistan. drones and cruise missiles wont stop the influx if we leave.
Exactly. I have relatives (fighting) in both Pakistan and Afganistan. We need to continue as long as they are there. If you aren't in the know you don't understand whats going on.
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Old 09-13-2009, 07:59 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by SHTSPRAYER View Post
Hmmm... except some muslim with an itchy trigger finger has it on a button that can launch nukes. And think about how much more economically powerful India and China get with Pakistan gone.
Pakistan gone? Thats not in our best interests.
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Old 09-14-2009, 03:38 PM   #54
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To "win" in Afghanistan now we would have to remove the government we installed and find some way to install one that wasn't corrupt from a cesspool of corruption.

I'm (sort of) with BRC on this one. If we're going to stay there then we put all of our troops in bases outside of populated areas. They only leave to kill someone and then they go right back. We have drones up in the skies in huge numbers. If one goes down to enemy fire everyone in a half mile radius of the drone dies, no questions asked.
Oh, but BRC, Jaz, BEP, and meme WOULD ask questions.
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Old 09-14-2009, 03:40 PM   #55
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It' would play perfectly well on a populace of dolts. So instead the administration stands pat and hold the line, avoiding a big hole that any 2012 opponent could exploit.

So what BRC proposes isn't going to happen.
You, and all the elitist mentailities like you, have GOT to get the fug over yourselves.
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Old 09-14-2009, 03:52 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Stewie View Post
Afghanistan is a proxy for Pakistan. We, along with India, need to squash Pakistan from east and west. Throw in China, too. They've had enough of this shit for far too long on their western border.
Not to poo poo your idea but of the 3, Pakistan is the one that is "supposed" to be our friend and all 3 of those countries have nuclear weapons. I was a very strong supporter of our being in Afghanistan but I would be interested to know what the game plan is. What do we need to declare victory. In all likelihood probably our best case scenario is to install a not too horrible dictator that is friendly to the west. Religious fanatics and democracy don't blend very well.
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Old 09-14-2009, 07:49 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Calcountry View Post
You, and all the elitist mentailities like you, have GOT to get the fug over yourselves.
I merely pointed out what I think will happen. That it got you so worked up is more of a reflection that you simply can't handle any possible version of future events as I presented.

You bunny traders are a real tough bunch.
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Old 09-15-2009, 06:59 AM   #58
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Poll: Support for Afghan war at all-time low
  • Story Highlights
  • CNN/Opinion Research Corp. says 39 percent of Americans favor Afghan war
  • Support is at lowest point since start of war in 2001 after 9/11
  • Most of recent erosion in support comes from GOP, CNN's polling director says
  • Poll's release comes after two deadliest months for U.S. military in Afghanistan
By Paul Steinhauser
CNN Deputy Political Director
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Support for the war in Afghanistan is at an all-time low, according to a new national poll.
A CNN/Opinion Research Corp. survey released Tuesday morning indicates that 39 percent of Americans favor the war in Afghanistan, with 58 percent opposed to the mission.

Support is down from 53 percent in April, marking the lowest level since the start of the U.S. military mission in Afghanistan soon after the September 11, 2001, attacks.
The poll suggests that 23 percent of Democrats support the war. That number rises to 39 percent for independents and 62 percent for Republicans.

"Most of the recent erosion in support has come from within the GOP," said Keating Holland, CNN's polling director. "Unlike Democrats and independents, Republicans still favor the war, but their support has slipped eight points in just two weeks."

How does Afghanistan compares with Iraq?
"The Afghan war is almost as unpopular as the Iraq war has been for the past four years," Holland said, noting that support for the war in Iraq first dropped to 39 percent in June 2005 and has generally remained in the low to mid-30s since.

The poll's release comes after the two deadliest months for the U.S. military in Afghanistan. In August, 48 U.S. troops were killed in the fighting, surpassing the previous high of 45 the month before.

President Obama has called Afghanistan a "war of necessity" and has placed great emphasis on defeating the Taliban and al Qaeda militants operating there and in Pakistan.

U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates is expected to approve sending thousands of additional troops to Afghanistan to deal with the growing threat from roadside bombs, Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell said last week.
Gates has concluded there is not enough manpower or equipment in Afghanistan to protect U.S. troops from such bombs, Morrell said. Watch U.S. senators on the next U.S. moves in Afghanistan
The CNN/Opinion Research poll was conducted Friday through Sunday, with 1,012 adult Americans questioned by telephone. The survey's overall sampling error is plus or minus 3 percentage points.
All AboutAfghanistan War The Taliban Robert Gates


Find this article at:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/...oll/index.html
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Old 09-15-2009, 07:02 AM   #59
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Old 09-15-2009, 07:05 AM   #60
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Poll: Support for Afghan war at all-time low
Do you think the President should manage his war according to polls?
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