So, HALF of all bankruptcies are Healthcare related?

[Mr. Kotter]

So, no one likes "big" government (I mean, really...given a 'choice')...yet at LEAST 1 in 3 (to be CONSERVATIVE; more like 1 in 2) bankruptcies in the U.S. are the result of medical bills/related expenses.

How do you REALLY feel about this???

[RJ]

Originally Posted by philfree

I think colonoscopys are one of the latest things in medicine. They try and sign everybody up for one. Easy money! That's why people are waiting for those. People are literally getting ass raped. LOL ...It's not really funny.

PhilFree

It's a helluva lot cheaper to do a colonoscopy than to treat someone in the later stages of colon cancer.

[RJ]

Originally Posted by BucEyedPea

Yeah, and what's behind that? I just bet there's some sort of govt interference there resulting in that. You act like we have a free system. We don't.
It's already a patchwork socialist system.

Still it's a false argument that millions of poor in this country are not getting any healthcare.

I'm not making that argument. I'm simply stating that people often have to wait quite a while for some procedures. Like I said, I'm only talking from first hand experience. I'm not millions of people, I'm just one guy. Perhaps my experiences are not the norm.

[RJ]

Originally Posted by Mr. Flopnuts

Everyone loves conspiracy theorists.

Yeah, that's just what the government wants you to believe.

[DJ's left nut]

Good lord. It's got nothing to do with a damn Mercedes.

Catastrophic Cost insurance is shockingly inexpensive. You don't need a Mercedes to be able to afford it, you just can't eat out very often or buy beer. These are decisions you'll have to make for yourself.

Operate without that safety net and you're beholden to the whims of fate. At that point yes, shit does happen.

What a bunch of BS strawmen in this thread.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Laz

I don't think it's really very complicated ... not easy but fairly simple.


1. Make Medicare price competitive ... i believe a bill has already been brought up before about how to lower the cost of Medicare by almost 40% by just competitive shopping the price that medicare pays.

2. Expand Medicare to cover anyone who needs it

3. Make insurance mandatory ... you have to have medicare or better insurance. If you want to keep your own fine, if not get Medicare. This offsets the cost of expanding Medicare by reducing uninsured medical bills and by increase medicare premium income.

4. medicare Fraud etc. now that you have everything under one house so to speak everything you can to to reduce cost and fraud saves big money across the board.

5. Make medicare insurance acceptance mandatory. Doctors,Hospitals,insurance companies can't just get together and block this by refusing to accept Medicare Insurance like some do now.


These five things will lower the cost and improve the performance of the Medicare system and bring competition directly to the Medicare insurance industry in a very capitalistic way which will end up lower prices all across the board.

Medicare essentially is mandatory. If your hospital has an emergency room, it has to accept Medicare.

Furthmore, look at what Medicare actually pays to healthcare providers and you'll see why it simply isn't a viable system. It's essentially a government sponsored car-jacking.

When Medicare offers something like $700 for a knee replacement surgery and $2,000 for spinal fusion surgery, you know that it's simply not a viable solution to any large-scale problem. Doctors making $15/hr isn't really my idea of a good plan, especially not when we'll get a similar decrease in the amount of available resources for research and development. Medicare has already gone well beyond 'price competitive' and is essentially just a state-run screw-job at this point.

There is a distinct possibility that the US Healthcare system has simply priced itself out of a lot of markets. This country can do things medically that are found nowhere else in the world...and it costs money. The scary possibility is that the government solution is to simply dial down the quality of care from the Nissan Altima version we currently have (affordable to the middle-class and above) to a used Geo version where everyone can have it...so long as you're okay with it being sub-standard.

Oh, and mandatory insurance is pretty much a stones throw from sickles and scythes, but whatever floats your boat.

[BAS]

I find it funny that, regardless of the side, nobody felt the need to argue that insurance companies, given the economic structure of this type of good, have an incentive to heavily distort the costs. Once you admit that, then the only question is whether it is a good idea to allow them to do that with a good that literally means life and death to so many people. I believe we should have total free market for disposable commodities, but the close we get to real life and death issues, the government has an interest in exercising heavy regulation either in the form of hard price caps or government distribution in order to ensure that all citizens have the opportunity to obtain such good or service. Cola, candy and porn ought to be subject to the laws of supply and demand, but life-saving cancer treatment has no business being denied due to concerns about profit. End of story.

I have the Cadillac of insurance plans right now, and I pay very little for it. I have a good employer. But they give it to me now as a student teacher because I am young and do not need it: I've seen the doctor 2 times in 3 years. I and my employer will pay for great coverage now. But when I really need all of the services, like my father does now, they will not be there for me. It might mean that I cannot have a Cadillac plan? Fine. It might mean that I have to wait a little longer now? No problem. I would give up my insurance right now to give it to my father, who needs it. And I would give up my premium private plan for others to have some coverage when they need it. I am one of the "illustrious 85%" that is satisfied with my coverage. But I am not satisfied with the coverage of others and am willing to give some things up to make it better across the board. And when it comes right down to it: if I needed the coverage (and when I do need it), it will not be there for me, because living will create a set of unknown pre-existing conditions that will allow them to screw me.

Living together in a political community means we look out after the life and death of fellow citizens. I think it is time we start doing that in this country...

[KCChiefsMan]

Signature from a doctor's pen - $300
Wearing that stupid gown - $750
A couple of aspirin's - $899
10 minutes of a doctors time - $1,500

that's just a rough estimate, but it's pretty accurate.

[RJ]

Not surprising that this thread was moved, but it really had stayed perfectly civil. Now that it's over here it will probably go straight to shit.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by KCChiefsMan

Signature from a doctor's pen - $300
Wearing that stupid gown - $750
A couple of aspirin's - $899
10 minutes of a doctors time - $1,500

that's just a rough estimate, but it's pretty accurate.

Multiply that by 3 and you get the outlay when the government gets involved.

Only folks like yourself will gladly soak the rich for the tab...

[Mr. Kotter]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Multiply that by 3 and you get the outlay when the government gets involved.

Only folks like yourself will gladly soak the rich for the tab...

I'd bet you are single, under 30-35 yrs of age, and probably in sales of some sort...maybe even in the industry. Your words are pretty telling that your view of what many Americans face....is pretty dang distorted. Check back with us in 15-20 years, when real life has educated you a bit.

That, or I'm giving you too much credit in assuming you are capable of wising up about this stuff.

[VAChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Multiply that by 3 and you get the outlay when the government gets involved.

Only folks like yourself will gladly soak the rich for the tab...

Speaking of soaking rich...when the CEO's of the bigger health care companies are pulling down as much as 24 mil a year you have to wonder if they have the best interests of their clients at heart and I don't mean their stockholders. I mean costs for employers are getting out of hand, yet they still keep paying outrageous bonuses and compensation that are tied to profits...I don't know exactly what the answer is to that issue...that is what a CEO is supposed to do, maximize profits...but it doesn't seem right for healthcare...jmo

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter

I'd bet you are single, under 30-35 yrs of age, and probably in sales of some sort...maybe even in the industry. Your words are pretty telling that your view of what many Americans face....is pretty dang distorted. Check back with us in 15-20 years, when real life has educated you a bit.

That, or I'm giving you too much credit in assuming you are capable of wising up about this stuff.

28, so you've got one right.

Otherwise I'm a married attorney with a mortgage and plenty on my plate. Nevermind the political science degree...

So kindly blow it out your ass.

[Brock]

Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter

I'd bet you are single, under 30-35 yrs of age, and probably in sales of some sort...maybe even in the industry. Your words are pretty telling that your view of what many Americans face....is pretty dang distorted. Check back with us in 15-20 years, when real life has educated you a bit.

That, or I'm giving you too much credit in assuming you are capable of wising up about this stuff.

Tell it, O wise sage who has made it all the way to the lower middle.

[Mr. Kotter]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

28, so you've got one right.

Otherwise I'm a married attorney with a mortgage and plenty on my plate. Nevermind the political science degree...

So kindly blow it out your ass.

Political Sci...I'll match you with mine. Married and young though, I remember what things looked like back then too. Married for 20 years, with four kids....well, I outgrew that youthful arrogance and ignorance. Good luck to you in your journey to do the same.

[wild1]

Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter

I'd bet you are single, under 30-35 yrs of age, and probably in sales of some sort...maybe even in the industry. Your words are pretty telling that your view of what many Americans face....is pretty dang distorted. Check back with us in 15-20 years, when real life has educated you a bit.

That, or I'm giving you too much credit in assuming you are capable of wising up about this stuff.

What is it you do for a living?