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Old 12-20-2010, 10:40 AM  
B_Ambuehl B_Ambuehl is offline
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Did you over-react to the work of Casshole?

Against Seattle and Arizona?

From reading this board it sounds like Cassell just won the MVP trophy, but when I look at his stats for the last 2 football games this is what I find:

Denver: 17-31 196 1-0
St Louis: 15-29 184 1-1

That's barely 50% completion percentage against 2 shitty football teams WITH an outstanding running game behind him.

When I look at his record I don't think he's won a football game when he didn't get at least 140 rushing yards to support him.

The fact is Seattle and Arizona can make anybody look good. Hell, Alex Smith went for ~300 yds and 3 TDs last week vs Seattle.

At some point Casshole's gonna have to prove he can win a football game by himself without much of a running game against a good defense playing coverage. Opposing teams routinely sell out on the run when they face us. When you're only completing ~50% of your passes vs the kind of coverage he's been getting I think there are legitimate questions whether he's capable of doing that.

"But casshole is so tough and he's become a leader blah blah blah". ****ing trent dilfer was tough and a leader too. Doesn't make him a good QB. Hell, Tim Tebow's tough and a leader. Doesn't make him an NFL player.

Flame away.
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Old 12-21-2010, 11:55 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan View Post
The original post mentions the last two games that Cassel has played.

Interesting material. Even more interesting, the one that Cassel didn't.

To act as if any QB could come in and do well in this system because of the run game is ridiculous. The offense, led by Croyle, had 70 total yards.

While I would never tout Cassel as MVP... when you look at the disparity between this team WITH Cassel, and this team WITHOUT Cassel..... there, in fact, may be no single player that is more important to their team.

Now, one would have to have more than one game to assert that confidently. However, it certainly looks that way.
Yeah, except Cassel played as bad as Brody did last 3 times he faced the Chargers. Cassell is getting rep points based on things he hasn't done, not on what he has. Typically when that happens a huge step back is sure to come.
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Old 12-21-2010, 12:10 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by Commit2Excellence View Post
Yeah, except Cassel played as bad as Brody did last 3 times he faced the Chargers. Cassell is getting rep points based on things he hasn't done, not on what he has. Typically when that happens a huge step back is sure to come.
No, that's not true.

Cassel is getting credit for things he's doing today that he wasn't doing even in convincing wins (like Jacksonville and SF). The pocket awareness to slide around when the rush is coming, he's stepping into his throws instead of nervously throwing off his back foot, looking at multiple receivers instead of staring down the primary read, and whereas in the past he would become visibly frustrated when things weren't going well, against St. Louis he took complete charge and got his team to rally around him.

Those aren't the kinds of things that are going to disappear just because he's playing San Diego. I don't know how he would have done against San Diego. But you can't deny that those things above are proof of SIGNIFICANT improvement, regardless of strength of opponent.
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Old 12-21-2010, 12:11 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by Commit2Excellence View Post
Yeah, except Cassel played as bad as Brody did last 3 times he faced the Chargers. Cassell is getting rep points based on things he hasn't done, not on what he has. Typically when that happens a huge step back is sure to come.
This is BS. The guy has the 5th QB rating in the league, 25-5 TDs to INts, and has been the 2nd most efficient QB in his last 5 games, behind only Brady. Stop talking out of your ass, and BTW, I cannot wait till you guys step foot in Arrowhead a cpl weeks from now. Have fun watching us play our home game in the POs.
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Old 12-21-2010, 12:16 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by Commit2Excellence View Post
Yeah, except Cassel played as bad as Brody did last 3 times he faced the Chargers. Cassell is getting rep points based on things he hasn't done, not on what he has. Typically when that happens a huge step back is sure to come.
Cassel's put up Pro Bowl/borderline Pro Bowl numbers in 2 of his 3 seasons as a starter. I assume you're giving him plenty of "rep points" as a result.
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Old 12-21-2010, 12:57 PM   #125
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Let me clarify: Cassell is getting bonus points based on how bad Croyle and the team looked against SD. The chiefs looked so bad everybody says, "Oh wow Cassel really must be good if the team looks this bad". He comes back into the lineup, the chiefs play better, and all the sudden in the minds of many Cassel's an MVP candidate. However, if you take a closer look at things:

A: The one time he did face the Chargers this year Cassel looked damn near as bad as Croyle did (10-25 ~60 yds)

B: He has improved but still in his last 2 starts Cassel has been very pedestrian at around 50% and < 200 yds passing.

C: Winning football games tends to make people overlook weaknesses.

To put another way, he hasn't arrived yet. If Cassel continues to play the way he did against Denver and St. Louis he will be nothing more than a mediocre QB. His improvements need to continue before he's worthy of the praise he's getting.

If he plays the next 2 games exaactly the same way he played vs Denver and St. Louis and the Chiefs lose I imagine the majority of this board will likely be ready to throw him under the bus again.
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Old 12-21-2010, 12:59 PM
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Old 12-21-2010, 01:01 PM   #126
Just Passin' By Just Passin' By is offline
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Originally Posted by Commit2Excellence View Post
Let me clarify: Cassell is getting bonus points based on how bad Croyle and the team looked against SD. The chiefs looked so bad everybody says, "Oh wow Cassel really must be good if the team looks this bad". He comes back into the lineup, the chiefs play better, and all the sudden in the minds of many Cassel's an MVP candidate. However, if you take a closer look at things:

A: The one time he did face the Chargers this year Cassel looked damn near as bad as Croyle did (10-25 ~60 yds)

B: He has improved but still in his last 2 starts Cassel has been very pedestrian at around 50% and < 200 yds passing.

C: Winning football games tends to make people overlook weaknesses.

To put another way, he hasn't arrived yet. If Cassel continues to play the way he did against Denver and St. Louis he will be nothing more than a mediocre QB. His improvements need to continue before he's worthy of the praise he's getting.

If he plays the next 2 games exaactly the same way he played vs Denver and St. Louis I imagine the majority of this board will likely be ready to throw him under the bus again.
Why do you people who want to bash Cassel cite to the similarities while ignoring the differences? The first SD game was a matchup in horrible weather with the Chiefs sitting on a lead. The second game was a matchup in great weather, with the Chiefs falling behind early.

That fundamentally changes what's required from your quarterback in the current version of Weis' system.


To put it another way, quit posting bullshit.
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Old 12-21-2010, 01:01 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commit2Excellence View Post
Let me clarify: Cassell is getting bonus points based on how bad Croyle and the team looked against SD. The chiefs looked so bad everybody says, "Oh wow Cassel really must be good if the team looks this bad". He comes back into the lineup, the chiefs play better, and all the sudden in the minds of many Cassel's an MVP candidate. However, if you take a closer look at things:

A: The one time he did face the Chargers this year Cassel looked damn near as bad as Croyle did (10-25 ~60 yds)

B: He has improved but still in his last 2 starts Cassel has been very pedestrian at around 50% and < 200 yds passing.

C: Winning football games tends to make people overlook weaknesses.

To put another way, he hasn't arrived yet. If Cassel continues to play the way he did against Denver and St. Louis he will be nothing more than a mediocre QB. His improvements need to continue before he's worthy of the praise he's getting.

If he plays the next 2 games exaactly the same way he played vs Denver and St. Louis and the Chiefs lose I imagine the majority of this board will likely be ready to throw him under the bus again.
So,

Your point is based on him doing something he hasn't done?
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Old 12-21-2010, 01:07 PM   #128
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I've seen Cassel make huge strides this year from a mechanical standpoint, and he's just emrging.

To suggest he's reached his ceiling is ridiculous.
It's possible that he has, but highly unlikely, because it's well documented that he puts in the work to improve.

That being said, the thing that has me sold on Cassel right now is that we see a team that believes in him.

That's well over half the battle.

He grown into the clear leader of this team.
I think it was you who made the argument many times that when he's good, it's because he believes in himself. Not to pick nits, but I think his play over the second half of the season has far more to do with growth in that area than the team's belief in him.
But that doesn't discount the importance of the team believing he'll get the job done.


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Old 12-21-2010, 01:11 PM   #129
Sully Sully is offline
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I'm not sure I've ever rooted for a KC player to fail. I know there were several posters that wished Trent Green would fail because they didn't like the trade, etc. I just can't figure out why.

I hated the Tyson Jackson pick, but I don't want to see him fail. Look at his contract? We're bitching about Cassel's? And speaking of the contract or money...who cares? Cassel didn't ask for that contract nor should he be judged on it or have to live up to it. Blame Pioli if you don't like it...Not Cassel.

Right now, Cassel is playing with confidence, going through reads, showing good footwork and pocket awareness. His accuracy has improved and mistakes have reduced.

...But by all means, keep rooting against him Chiefs fans??
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And this is the entire problem with the argument. Somehow people like you have deluded yourselves into thinking that, somehow, people so passionate about this team have decided to "root against" a part they think is bad, rather than passionately point out that they wish their team was better at that position.
It's akin to saying a guy who wants/needs new performance tires is rooting for a flat.


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Old 12-21-2010, 01:14 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by Commit2Excellence View Post
He comes back into the lineup, the chiefs play better, and all the sudden in the minds of many Cassel's an MVP candidate. However, if you take a closer look at things:
You were obviously either not around in mid-November, or you weren't paying attention. This kind of talk has been going on since at least the game at Mile High, where some Cassel supporters started piecing together the highly efficient game against Jacksonville, a drive against Buffalo, and a half of football against Denver's prevent, so they could state their case that Cassel was on his way.


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Originally Posted by Commit2Excellence View Post
A: The one time he did face the Chargers this year Cassel looked damn near as bad as Croyle did (10-25 ~60 yds)

B: He has improved but still in his last 2 starts Cassel has been very pedestrian at around 50% and < 200 yds passing.

C: Winning football games tends to make people overlook weaknesses.

To put another way, he hasn't arrived yet. If Cassel continues to play the way he did against Denver and St. Louis he will be nothing more than a mediocre QB. His improvements need to continue before he's worthy of the praise he's getting.

If he plays the next 2 games exaactly the same way he played vs Denver and St. Louis and the Chiefs lose I imagine the majority of this board will likely be ready to throw him under the bus again.
No one (not many, anyway) seemed to bring up point 'A' when they lost to the Chargers... everyone was really hung up on putting it all on Croyle.

I agree with the rest of it... no, he hasn't arrived, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't get any credit for improving so much (not that you're saying he shouldn't).

And re: "the majority of this board will likely be ready to throw him under the bus again"... maybe you have been paying attention after all.
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Old 12-21-2010, 01:16 PM   #131
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I think it was you who made the argument many times that when he's good, it's because he believes in himself. Not to pick nits, but I think his play over the second half of the season has far more to do with growth in that area than the team's belief in him.
But that doesn't discount the importance of the team believing he'll get the job done.


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You're right, I did say that when Cassel plays with confidence, he plays much better.

That is true for just about anyone actually, but really highlighted by Cassel's inconsistency in his time as a Chief.

However, that has nothing to do with how the team responds to him.

Earlier in the year, the team looked like a ship without a rudder, but they now seem to have found direction, and that is because they now appear to have a leade to follow.
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Old 12-21-2010, 01:21 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by Commit2Excellence View Post
Let me clarify: Cassell is getting bonus points based on how bad Croyle and the team looked against SD. The chiefs looked so bad everybody says, "Oh wow Cassel really must be good if the team looks this bad". He comes back into the lineup, the chiefs play better, and all the sudden in the minds of many Cassel's an MVP candidate. However, if you take a closer look at things:

A: The one time he did face the Chargers this year Cassel looked damn near as bad as Croyle did (10-25 ~60 yds)

B: He has improved but still in his last 2 starts Cassel has been very pedestrian at around 50% and < 200 yds passing.

C: Winning football games tends to make people overlook weaknesses.

To put another way, he hasn't arrived yet. If Cassel continues to play the way he did against Denver and St. Louis he will be nothing more than a mediocre QB. His improvements need to continue before he's worthy of the praise he's getting.

If he plays the next 2 games exaactly the same way he played vs Denver and St. Louis and the Chiefs lose I imagine the majority of this board will likely be ready to throw him under the bus again.
Winning football games is what it is all about. The team has confidence in him...that counts. I was at the game on the KC side in the lower bowl near the 50. I watched Cassel on and off the field. It was very evident that the Chiefs were going to win that game. You could feel the confidence by watching him and the rest of the team's interacation.
Get over your hate for the guy.
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Old 12-21-2010, 01:23 PM   #133
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Winning football games is what it is all about. The team has confidence in him...that counts. I was at the game on the KC side in the lower bowl near the 50. I watched Cassel on and off the field. It was very evident that the Chiefs were going to win that game. You could feel the confidence by watching him and the rest of the team's interacation.
Get over your hate for the guy.
I think c2e is still butt hurt over JaMarcus being cut.
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Old 12-21-2010, 01:27 PM   #134
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And this is the entire problem with the argument. Somehow people like you have deluded yourselves into thinking that, somehow, people so passionate about this team have decided to "root against" a part they think is bad, rather than passionately point out that they wish their team was better at that position.
It's akin to saying a guy who wants/needs new performance tires is rooting for a flat.


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You can spin it however you want. The bottom line is that posters on here would relish in the fact that KC didn't make the playoffs because Cassel played poorly these last 2 games.

You either root for him or against him. There is no in between.
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Old 12-21-2010, 01:33 PM   #135
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You either root for him or against him. There is no in between.
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I think you are completely wrong about that.
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