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Old 12-20-2010, 09:40 AM  
B_Ambuehl B_Ambuehl is offline
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Did you over-react to the work of Casshole?

Against Seattle and Arizona?

From reading this board it sounds like Cassell just won the MVP trophy, but when I look at his stats for the last 2 football games this is what I find:

Denver: 17-31 196 1-0
St Louis: 15-29 184 1-1

That's barely 50% completion percentage against 2 shitty football teams WITH an outstanding running game behind him.

When I look at his record I don't think he's won a football game when he didn't get at least 140 rushing yards to support him.

The fact is Seattle and Arizona can make anybody look good. Hell, Alex Smith went for ~300 yds and 3 TDs last week vs Seattle.

At some point Casshole's gonna have to prove he can win a football game by himself without much of a running game against a good defense playing coverage. Opposing teams routinely sell out on the run when they face us. When you're only completing ~50% of your passes vs the kind of coverage he's been getting I think there are legitimate questions whether he's capable of doing that.

"But casshole is so tough and he's become a leader blah blah blah". ****ing trent dilfer was tough and a leader too. Doesn't make him a good QB. Hell, Tim Tebow's tough and a leader. Doesn't make him an NFL player.

Flame away.
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Old 12-21-2010, 01:55 PM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sully View Post
Since each "basher" has their own set of goalposts, and since you are confident in their movement, can you point to specific posters and their movement?
Can you tell me where to look specifically?
I'm confident of mine, but I'm sure you have some specifics in mind to turn me around on this "they root for a flat tire!" theory.


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I don't save these things for posterity, but there are plenty immortalized in signatures across the board.

Here's one that I was able to find easily because I got a neg rep in the thread for defending Cassel's performance. (The neg wasn't from Deez, BTW.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeezNutz View Post
But let me give you a microcosm for why I think he's yet another worthless sack of shit in a long line of worthless sacks of shit that we've had at the QB position:

3rd and about 7. Time in the pocket. No heavy pressure. Cassel shits himself and literally runs into a sack instead of staying strong in the pocket.

This is the anti Trent Green. That sumbitch was impervious to danger in the pocket. Not surprisingly, who lit up Cassel for his stupidity?

All of this goes back to my claim that Cassel possesses modest talent (at best) and extremely limited football instincts. And you're not going to teach or develop the latter at the professional level.
Cassel is now one of the least sacked QBs in the NFL, and it sure looks like he's developed these instincts at the professional level.
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Old 12-21-2010, 01:59 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by Just Passin' By View Post
You think playing superior teams and coming from behind to win isn't going to lend itself to being looked at as having had critical situations just because one team is out of the playoff hunt. I know from playing in games like that at a moderately high level, as well as from talking with professional-level athletes, that your position is often not the mindset of the players involved.
So let me see if I understand this.

The pressure to win what is essentially a meaningless game is about equal to the pressure to win a playoff game, or one with huge playoff implications?

That about right?
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Old 12-21-2010, 02:02 PM   #168
Just Passin' By Just Passin' By is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sully View Post
Since each "basher" has their own set of goalposts, and since you are confident in their movement, can you point to specific posters and their movement?
Can you tell me where to look specifically?
I'm confident of mine, but I'm sure you have some specifics in mind to turn me around on this "they root for a flat tire!" theory.


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"I want my QB to be able to win games"

- Cassel won 11 games in N.E.


"That doesn't count. Anyone can win in N.E. with that team and coach"

- Bledsoe was only 5-13 with Belichick


"Bledsoe sucked"

- Bledsoe was a Pro Bowl QB both before, and after, his time with Belichick


"But I need to see it over the course of a full season"

- The Chiefs have 9 wins, and will have a winning season


"But I need to see it in critical games"

- Cassel just came back from an appendectomy and helped win a game that the team needed in order to stay ahead of the Chargers


"But he hasn't won in the playoffs!"

- He hasn't played in the playoffs, either, because the 2008 Patriots were unlucky enough to become the only team to miss the playoffs with an 11-5 record since the league went to 4 divisions in the conferences. Manning is .500 in the playoffs, and Matt Ryan is 0-1 in the playoffs. Would you be bashing them, too?


If you think the threads haven't gone in a that sort of vein, you haven't been around here much.
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Old 12-21-2010, 02:04 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by Just Passin' By View Post
"I want my QB to be able to win games"

- Cassel won 11 games in N.E.


"That doesn't count. Anyone can win in N.E. with that team and coach"

- Bledsoe was only 5-13 with Belichick


"Bledsoe sucked"

- Bledsoe was a Pro Bowl QB both before, and after, his time with Belichick


"But I need to see it over the course of a full season"

- The Chiefs have 9 wins, and will have a winning season


"But I need to see it in critical games"

- Cassel just came back from an appendectomy and helped win a game that the team needed in order to stay ahead of the Chargers


"But he hasn't won in the playoffs!"

- He hasn't played in the playoffs, either, because the 2008 Patriots were unlucky enough to become the only team to miss the playoffs with an 11-5 record since the league went to 4 divisions in the conferences. Manning is .500 in the playoffs, and Matt Ryan is 0-1 in the playoffs. Would you be bashing them, too?


If you think the threads haven't gone in a that sort of vein, you haven't been around here much.
I bash Manning all the time.
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Old 12-21-2010, 02:06 PM   #170
Just Passin' By Just Passin' By is offline
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Originally Posted by milkman View Post
So let me see if I understand this.

The pressure to win what is essentially a meaningless game is about equal to the pressure to win a playoff game, or one with huge playoff implications?

That about right?
Pressure is not determined by a bunch of people in the stands or watching on television. Furthermore, what a spectator may consider meaningless will not necessarily be the same as what a player considers meaningless.
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Old 12-21-2010, 02:10 PM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
I don't save these things for posterity, but there are plenty immortalized in signatures across the board.

Here's one that I was able to find easily because I got a neg rep in the thread for defending Cassel's performance. (The neg wasn't from Deez, BTW.)



Cassel is now one of the least sacked QBs in the NFL, and it sure looks like he's developed these instincts at the professional level.
I'm reading this on Tapatalk, so I can't see who typed that quote or, apparently, how that poster moved the goalposts.
Help a brutha out, will ya?


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Old 12-21-2010, 02:11 PM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Passin' By View Post
"I want my QB to be able to win games"

- Cassel won 11 games in N.E.


"That doesn't count. Anyone can win in N.E. with that team and coach"

- Bledsoe was only 5-13 with Belichick


"Bledsoe sucked"

- Bledsoe was a Pro Bowl QB both before, and after, his time with Belichick


"But I need to see it over the course of a full season"

- The Chiefs have 9 wins, and will have a winning season


"But I need to see it in critical games"

- Cassel just came back from an appendectomy and helped win a game that the team needed in order to stay ahead of the Chargers


"But he hasn't won in the playoffs!"

- He hasn't played in the playoffs, either, because the 2008 Patriots were unlucky enough to become the only team to miss the playoffs with an 11-5 record since the league went to 4 divisions in the conferences. Manning is .500 in the playoffs, and Matt Ryan is 0-1 in the playoffs. Would you be bashing them, too?


If you think the threads haven't gone in a that sort of vein, you haven't been around here much.
Those are great.
Now how have those posters moved their goalposts?


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Old 12-21-2010, 02:12 PM   #173
Just Passin' By Just Passin' By is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sully View Post
Those are great.
Now how have those posters moved their goalposts?


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Quote:
Moving the goalposts, also known as raising the bar, is an informal logically fallacious argument in which evidence presented in response to a specific claim is dismissed and some other (often greater) evidence is demanded.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts
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Old 12-21-2010, 02:14 PM   #174
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Milkman and Sully deserve the Congressional Medal of Jesus for dealing with TRR, Saul and JPB in this thread.

This notion that there are people that want Cassel to fail is rooted in ignorance, and is nothing more than an attack on posters they don't like. Nothing more.

There's not a single poster here, with the exception of Mecca - who's gone MIA - that hasn't praised Cassel when he's done well.

Me, Deez, Hamas, Dane, etc. Every one of us have pointed to his improvement in the pocket. His improved decision making. His leadership. His toughness.

There's no doubt he's improved. None.

But for some of us, we'd like to see that improvement manifest itself against an elite opponent/in a critical situation before claiming he's an upper echelon QB. He's improved. Is he good enough to win a championship? Remains to be seen IMO. Playing well in a win against a team like Baltimore or Pittsburgh would at least show me that he's capable of doing so.

He's improved more than I thought he was capable of, so for that specifically, serve me some crow appetizer if you like.
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Old 12-21-2010, 02:14 PM   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Passin' By View Post
"I want my QB to be able to win games"

- Cassel won 11 games in N.E.


"That doesn't count. Anyone can win in N.E. with that team and coach"

- Bledsoe was only 5-13 with Belichick


"Bledsoe sucked"

- Bledsoe was a Pro Bowl QB both before, and after, his time with Belichick


"But I need to see it over the course of a full season"

- The Chiefs have 9 wins, and will have a winning season


"But I need to see it in critical games"

- Cassel just came back from an appendectomy and helped win a game that the team needed in order to stay ahead of the Chargers


"But he hasn't won in the playoffs!"

- He hasn't played in the playoffs, either, because the 2008 Patriots were unlucky enough to become the only team to miss the playoffs with an 11-5 record since the league went to 4 divisions in the conferences. Manning is .500 in the playoffs, and Matt Ryan is 0-1 in the playoffs. Would you be bashing them, too?
Everything in this post that's outside of quote marks is at least not relevant and at most full retard, and I really hope those aren't actual arguments from anyone, ever.
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Old 12-21-2010, 02:16 PM   #176
Just Passin' By Just Passin' By is offline
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Originally Posted by Bearcat View Post
Everything in this post that's outside of quote marks is at least not relevant and at most full retard, and I really hope those aren't actual arguments from anyone, ever.
If you really think that, you're an idiot.
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Old 12-21-2010, 02:16 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by Just Passin' By View Post
I understand what it means.
Have the specific posters you quoted changed their stance since Cassel reached all their checkmarks?


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Old 12-21-2010, 02:22 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
Here's one that I was able to find easily because I got a neg rep in the thread for defending Cassel's performance. (The neg wasn't from Deez, BTW.)
.
I moved goalposts? If not, then this post doesn't support your claim.

If anything, I've noted that I could be wrong. In the context of that specific game and up until that point in Cassel's development, that post was 100 percent correct.
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Old 12-21-2010, 02:27 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 View Post
Milkman and Sully deserve the Congressional Medal of Jesus for dealing with TRR, Saul and JPB in this thread.

This notion that there are people that want Cassel to fail is rooted in ignorance, and is nothing more than an attack on posters they don't like. Nothing more.

There's not a single poster here, with the exception of Mecca - who's gone MIA - that hasn't praised Cassel when he's done well.

Me, Deez, Hamas, Dane, etc. Every one of us have pointed to his improvement in the pocket. His improved decision making. His leadership. His toughness.

There's no doubt he's improved. None.

But for some of us, we'd like to see that improvement manifest itself against an elite opponent/in a critical situation before claiming he's an upper echelon QB. He's improved. Is he good enough to win a championship? Remains to be seen IMO. Playing well in a win against a team like Baltimore or Pittsburgh would at least show me that he's capable of doing so.

He's improved more than I thought he was capable of, so for that specifically, serve me some crow appetizer if you like.


And...

This.
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Old 12-21-2010, 02:31 PM   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Passin' By View Post
If you really think that, you're an idiot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Passin' By View Post
"I want my QB to be able to win games"

- Cassel won 11 games in N.E.

Cassel won 11 games in NE.... that completely misses the point of the argument. I'm no basher, but the argument is they want Cassel to put a game on his shoulders. Quickly looking at his time in NE, I'd say you could make the argument that he did so 2-3 times, with a supporting cast that helped Brady to a ~120 QB rating the previous year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Passin' By View Post

"That doesn't count. Anyone can win in N.E. with that team and coach"

- Bledsoe was only 5-13 with Belichick


"Bledsoe sucked"

- Bledsoe was a Pro Bowl QB both before, and after, his time with Belichick

.

Bledsoe? Are you ****ing kidding me? "That team" has nothing to do with Drew Bledsoe... what the hell?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Passin' By View Post

"But I need to see it over the course of a full season"

- The Chiefs have 9 wins, and will have a winning season

Yeah, the Chiefs have 9 wins, but that's completely missing the point. Seeing "it" over the course of the season means consistency out of Cassel. Have we seen that all season? No. (I don't think this was an expectation coming into a season, it's simply saying "before I crown his ass, I'd like to see him play at a high level on a consistent basis").


Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Passin' By View Post
"But I need to see it in critical games"

- Cassel just came back from an appendectomy and helped win a game that the team needed in order to stay ahead of the Chargers

The Rams?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Passin' By View Post

"But he hasn't won in the playoffs!"

- He hasn't played in the playoffs, either, because the 2008 Patriots were unlucky enough to become the only team to miss the playoffs with an 11-5 record since the league went to 4 divisions in the conferences. Manning is .500 in the playoffs, and Matt Ryan is 0-1 in the playoffs. Would you be bashing them, too?
.

Again, missing the point... it's not "but, he hasn't won in the playoffs," it's "before I crown his ass, let's see him win meaningful games," and what better game than a playoff game?
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