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Old 01-08-2011, 01:09 PM  
JohnnyV13 JohnnyV13 is offline
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Arizona congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot at public event

Giffords shot at meet n greet in front of a tucson safeway. Early reports 12 wounded. 4 confirmed dead, early reports say giffords was shot in the head. 3 of her staff are also wounded. No report from the hospital on giffords.
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Old 01-08-2011, 04:58 PM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
He lists Mein Kampf and The Communist Manifesto as two of his favorite books...

Frankly, I just think he was a nut. People are reading politics into it.
Also We The Living. Who wrote that?
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Old 01-08-2011, 04:59 PM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Lee View Post
Since targets are so germane.

I'm sure nothing but the sound of chirping crickets will greet this post...
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Old 01-08-2011, 05:00 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR View Post
99% of libertarian stuff you read/see emphasizes peace. It may have a fetish for Revolutionary War costumes and the like, but you could go to one of these conventions (example: Porcfest) and not one person there would dream of violent uprising/shooting a congresswoman in the head.

Your comment about "it's time for a libertarian group to step up and denounce the behavior of its radicals in the movement" is childish and similar in tone to xenophobic assholes who demand that the Nation of Islam stand up and denounce the behavior of terrorists.
It's not just the radicals among the tea partiers.
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Old 01-08-2011, 05:00 PM   #154
Baby Lee Baby Lee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orange View Post
Also We The Living. Who wrote that?
Providing cover?
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Old 01-08-2011, 05:02 PM   #155
RINGLEADER RINGLEADER is offline
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Here's someone who claims to have known the shooter and was with him when he engaged the congresswoman a few years ago.

http://mobile.twitter.com/caitiepark...79901883682816

Frankly, having watched his YouTube videos, I think he is a complete nutjob.

Doesn't change the fact that this is a tragedy. Thoughts and prayers to all impacted by this stupid act.
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Old 01-08-2011, 05:03 PM   #156
cdcox cdcox is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
No they're not. Words and labels have meanings. Those calling them fluid just want license to abuse their meanings or are too lazy to really look them up or study.
Again, your understanding of libertarianism is also based on msm popular babble or what you hear people claim as opposed to study of the actually authors of that movement. It begins and ends with the non-aggression doctrine—PERIOD!
But it is getting balled up with the tea party message, which isn't pure libertarianism.

And to suggest the meanings of words and labels don't change is silly. Do you honestly think that 1850's Republican party is essentially the same at it's core as the 2000 version?
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Old 01-08-2011, 05:03 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey23545 View Post
I'm sure nothing but the sound of chirping crickets will greet this post...
Puts a bullseye on their district are the words. Sort of different then a picture of cross hairs on her picture along with words like Don't retreat, reload.
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Old 01-08-2011, 05:05 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Lee View Post
Providing cover?
Gold Standard... Ayn Rand... hates government.

No, I'm sure he's not a Libertarian. (albeit a whacked-out version).
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Old 01-08-2011, 05:07 PM   #159
RINGLEADER RINGLEADER is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toadkiller View Post
Puts a bullseye on their district are the words. Sort of different then a picture of cross hairs on her picture along with words like Don't retreat, reload.
Evidence doesn't really support this as a motivator for the shooter (his supposed friend labeled him a liberal) but when you're dealing with crazy people this rhetoric can be provocative and dangerous.
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Old 01-08-2011, 05:08 PM   #160
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdcox View Post
But it is getting balled up with the tea party message, which isn't pure libertarianism.
The original Tea Party was formed by the libertarians. It started during Ron Paul's primary campaign. Later more joined, even some Democrats, as a reaction to Obama's policies.

That this is getting balled up with the TP movement is being caused by people opposed to it and who want to point fingers. There are violent types on both sides of the aisle. Like Ayers on the left.

Quote:
And to suggest the meanings of words and labels don't change is silly. Do you honestly think that 1850's Republican party is essentially the same at it's core as the 2000 version?
I did say they didn't change....I said they were not fluid. They have meanings and some have several meanings. That's why dictionaries list more than one entry. One of the major reasons words change, is because their original meaning was never understood. Eventually dictionaries keep up by adding another entry. All that means is that definition applies for that context. That has not occurred in this context. Libertarian has a set of beliefs and most don't bother to look them up or understand them. In fact sometimes it's done intentionally which Orwell wrote about under his writings on abuse of language. Which brings us back to why meanings change—because they were not originally understood. You don't understand libertarianism nor just JohnnyV.
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Old 01-08-2011, 05:08 PM   #161
Baby Lee Baby Lee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orange View Post
Gold Standard... Ayn Rand... hates government.

No, I'm sure he's not a Libertarian. (albeit a whacked-out version).
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Lee View Post
Yeah, I think if you put his entire 'favorite books' list into one of those Barnes and Noble/Amazon 'readers also liked' things, the engine would tell you to **** yourself.
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Old 01-08-2011, 05:10 PM   #162
dirk digler dirk digler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toadkiller View Post
Puts a bullseye on their district are the words. Sort of different then a picture of cross hairs on her picture along with words like Don't retreat, reload.
In fairness to Palin I haven't found this picture. I know she put a crosshair on her district but not her picture.
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Old 01-08-2011, 05:10 PM   #163
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Back to meanings and their fluidity.

Lutheran is a label for various religious bodies. The largest group of Lutherans in the US have changed considerably from Luther's positions on theology and its application to life in the church. The label Lutheran is no longer sufficient to identify individuals and church bodies that adhere to Luther's original theological positions. Hence the label "confessional Lutheran" has been adopted by those who wish to distance and distinguish themselves from those who define the contemporary meaning of "Lutheran".
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Old 01-08-2011, 05:12 PM   #164
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Can we divert at least the semantic discussion to its own thread?
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Old 01-08-2011, 05:12 PM   #165
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orange View Post
Gold Standard... Ayn Rand... hates government.
No she hates BIG govt and totalitarian govts and govts that restrict liberty. Afterall, that's what she grew up under—she has a right to that imo. Those who love liberty tend to be anti-state as in BIG states because that reduces liberty. This happens to be fact. Heck, you probably think I'm a total fan of her and I'm not.
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