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Old 02-02-2011, 02:24 PM  
Taco John Taco John is offline
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Arizona posturing for de facto seccession

File this under "nullification isn't as dead as some would like you to believe it is."


http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/EJMontini/117684


E.J. Montini's Columns & Blog
E.J. Montini is a columnist for The Arizona Republic.

Arizona to secede (without OFFICIALLY doing so)

Members of the state Legislature, including Arizona's de facto governor, Senate President Russell Pearce, have introduced a bill that essentially would have Arizona secede from the union without having to do so officially.

Really.

It's called SB1433, (See it here.) It creates a 12-member committee within the legislature that could "vote by simple majority to nullify in its entirety a specific federal law or regulation that is outside the scope of the powers delegated by the people to the federal government…"

Committee members themselves would decide this, then pass along their recommendation to the full Legislature. If, in turn, a majority of state lawmakers go along with the committee then, according to the bill, "this state and its citizens shall not recognize or be obligated to live under the statute, mandate or executive order."

The nullification committee also would be permitted to review all existing federal laws to see if our legislative geniuses want to toss them out as well.

In every legislative session in every state throughout the land there are proposals like this, usually made by a few fringe members who know their proposal has no chance but file it anyway to serve some personal or political agenda.

In this instance, legislators here -- who claim to be strict constitutionalists -- seem fairly willing to ignore what is commonly called the "supremacy clause" of the U.S. Constitution (as well as the Fourteenth Amendment), and which more or less say that federal law supersedes state law.

A state or a person can challenge such laws in court. But a state can't on its own simply declare a federal law to be unconsitutional.

Legislators who propose such things often are quietly patted on the heads and laughed off by their colleagues.

In our case, however, the legislation is being proposed by, among others, Sen. Pearce, the most powerful person in state government.

So, as wacky as the proposal is, that makes it much less of a laughing matter.

Wednesday, February 2, 2011 at 11:57 AM
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:57 PM   #46
Jenson71 Jenson71 is offline
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Originally Posted by The Mad Crapper View Post
He's really fired up, tonight.

Call me old-fashioned. I love this country and its continuation is worth dying for, in the way that I would die for the Church, you morally-bankrupt coward.
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:58 PM   #47
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Something happened between 1861 and 1864. Goggle it, see what you find.
Something happened in 1775-1783 too...google it and see what you find.
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:59 PM   #48
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Call me old-fashioned. I love this country and its continuation is worth dying for, in the way that I would die for the Church, you morally-bankrupt coward.
I agree that its continuation is worth dying for. Though I think you are confused about what this country is supposed to be about and where it is headed. It's two different directions.

Oh, and you're a sheep.
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:59 PM   #49
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You think that was the only reason the colonies left? It was many usurpations including mercantilist trade issues.

And no, many in this country feel they no longer have politicians that are listening to the people as reps, if you listen better.


"When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."


Sounds to me like AZ has reached this point.
And Arizonans have representatives in Congress whom they elected to represent them. If they don't like what their representatives are doing, get rid of them at the next election.

In other words, right now, the government IS deriving its just powers from the consent of the governed.
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Old 02-02-2011, 07:01 PM   #50
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Call me old-fashioned. I love this country and its continuation is worth dying for, in the way that I would die for the Church, you morally-bankrupt coward.
Be honest. I promise not to laugh.


You're a virgin, aren't you?
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Old 02-02-2011, 07:01 PM   #51
Jenson71 Jenson71 is offline
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
Something happened in 1775-1783 too...google it and see what you find.
We broke away from monarchy that refused to allow us a seat in Parliament while imposing taxes on us.
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Old 02-02-2011, 07:01 PM   #52
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BFD. As we have seen, Representation means little anymore these days. If the President doesn't like it, he backdoors it. If the opposing party doesn't like it they water it down or attach what one could call counter-measures to a bill. That's how you end up where we are, Donger. Broke. We are broke. This country is broke. Financially and even legally to a high degree. And it all stems from Congress doing everything they aren't supposed to do and doing little for what they are supposed to do. As of late the Fed Gov has been over-stepping their bounds in a gross way and when States don't support them they get sued. We are caught in a downward spiral and unfortuantely it usually takes hitting a brick wall before the people in charge decide they have to turn the boat around.
We have elections pretty regularly, pete.
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Old 02-02-2011, 07:02 PM   #53
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I agree that its continuation is worth dying for. Though I think you are confused about what this country is supposed to be about and where it is headed. It's two different directions.

Oh, and you're a sheep.
You're ignorant.
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Old 02-02-2011, 07:02 PM   #54
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Be honest. I promise not to laugh.


You're a virgin, aren't you?
Be honest. I promise not to laugh.

You think the Catholic Church is outdated, don't you?
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Old 02-02-2011, 07:03 PM   #55
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We have elections pretty regularly, pete.
And?
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Old 02-02-2011, 07:03 PM   #56
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We have elections pretty regularly, pete.
People are only represented when his political agenda is winning the debate.
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Old 02-02-2011, 07:03 PM   #57
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And Arizonans have representatives in Congress whom they elected to represent them. If they don't like what their representatives are doing, get rid of them at the next election.

In other words, right now, the government IS deriving its just powers from the consent of the governed.
They still have a NATURAL right to secede and the notes from the Constitutional Convention show that the Framers intended the union to be voluntary. They even discussed the use of force if a state wanted to leave and they were against it. They didn't include it anywhere did they? Nope. It was struck out. I suppose some weren't supportive of that like Hamilton. They can leave despite representation....as the south had that in their War for Southern Independence as well. In fact, as I posted here in arguments with Amnorix, the papers at the time discussed that it was voluntary as well. Many thought that even up to then. It's been since Lincoln we think we're a permanently tied national union. That's the Hamiltonianism that Lincoln set in. It's false. So instead he jailed congressmen and journalist and shut down papers for opposing him too. There's no language in the Constitution barring any state from leaving. PERIOD!
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Old 02-02-2011, 07:03 PM   #58
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You're ignorant.
And you're a dumb ****.
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Old 02-02-2011, 07:03 PM   #59
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Be honest. I promise not to laugh.

You think the Catholic Church is outdated, don't you?
You are a virgin!

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Old 02-02-2011, 07:04 PM   #60
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And you're a dumb ****.
His socks are too loose and his pants are too tight.
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