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Old 01-23-2010, 08:43 AM  
Saul Good Saul Good is offline
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Will we see a major Dem challenge Obama for the 2012 nomination?

Hillary has been suspiciously quiet for at least the past 6 months. I think she knows that she will be way too old in 2016. Then, you see some Dems like Harold Ford doing their own thing and going against the party establishment. I've never seen an incumbent get a serious challenge in the primary, but I could see it happening this time.
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Old 11-01-2010, 11:44 PM   #91
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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Originally Posted by CoMoChief View Post
Republicans then were MUCH MUCH different than the ones we have now.....philosophies etc.
This is correct.

Also, the Republican support for the ERA is more complicated than Saul posits, and his attempts to equate the Republicans of Lincoln to the modern day variety are outright dishonest.

The only similarity that the Republicans of the 1860s share with the Republicans of the 2010s is that they both are strong supporters of large businesses.

The Republicans haven't been the party of civil rights since Johnson signed the Civil Rights act in 1964 and all the pissed off white southerners defected from the Democratic Party in droves. LBJ didn't say "I just handed the south to the Republicans" for nothing.

As far as support of affirmative action goes among the Republican Party, it has been lukewarm at best. Most of the policies that established Affirmative Action weren't even up for votes, they were executive orders given by Democratic presidents--most notably Kennedy and LBJ. Nixon issued one executive order for a Minority Business Plan, and Carter another for a similar smaller program. Of course, vocal opposition to affirmative action has been most notable among the Republican Party, including prominent blacks within the party like Condoleezza Rice and Clarence Thomas.

The ERA was passed through Congress, but the Republicans did not officially support it until 1980, 8 years after it was passed, and three years after the last state attempts at ratification. The states that didn't pass the ERA also had, on the whole, more conservative politics. A grassroots attempt at ratification in Arkansas in 2009 was defeated, and pro-life organizations (and we know who they vote for), argued they were responsible for its defeat.
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Old 11-02-2010, 12:14 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
This is correct.

Also, the Republican support for the ERA is more complicated than Saul posits, and his attempts to equate the Republicans of Lincoln to the modern day variety are outright dishonest.

The only similarity that the Republicans of the 1860s share with the Republicans of the 2010s is that they both are strong supporters of large businesses.

The Republicans haven't been the party of civil rights since Johnson signed the Civil Rights act in 1964 and all the pissed off white southerners defected from the Democratic Party in droves. LBJ didn't say "I just handed the south to the Republicans" for nothing.

As far as support of affirmative action goes among the Republican Party, it has been lukewarm at best. Most of the policies that established Affirmative Action weren't even up for votes, they were executive orders given by Democratic presidents--most notably Kennedy and LBJ. Nixon issued one executive order for a Minority Business Plan, and Carter another for a similar smaller program. Of course, vocal opposition to affirmative action has been most notable among the Republican Party, including prominent blacks within the party like Condoleezza Rice and Clarence Thomas.

The ERA was passed through Congress, but the Republicans did not officially support it until 1980, 8 years after it was passed, and three years after the last state attempts at ratification. The states that didn't pass the ERA also had, on the whole, more conservative politics. A grassroots attempt at ratification in Arkansas in 2009 was defeated, and pro-life organizations (and we know who they vote for), argued they were responsible for its defeat.
I don't think there's much support for affirmative action on the right today. Most view it as discrimination where people are no longer awarded something on merit. (when applied)
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Old 03-20-2011, 05:04 PM   #93
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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I would like to bump this thread because, like most liberals, Libya has changed my mind on this issue.

I think Obama could very well face a major Democratic challenge now, if Libya continues for the rest of his first term.
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Old 03-20-2011, 05:16 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I would like to bump this thread because, like most liberals, Libya has changed my mind on this issue.

I think Obama could very well face a major Democratic challenge now, if Libya continues for the rest of his first term.
You are completely out of your mind. There is no way in hell Obama faces a serious primary challenge. The democratic party is not going to seriously try to primary out the first black president in US history, thus cutting their throat for the next several election cycles, no matter what he does. They would be better off sticking with a sure loser if things looked grim in early 2012.

Will there be a fringey froot-loop like Kucinich? Sure, why not, but that would be a mostly-ignored clowncar.
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Old 03-20-2011, 05:21 PM   #95
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
You are completely out of your mind. There is no way in hell Obama faces a serious primary challenge. The democratic party is not going to seriously try to primary out the first black president in US history, thus cutting their throat for the next several election cycles, no matter what he does. They would be better off sticking with a sure loser if things looked grim in early 2012.

Will there be a fringey froot-loop like Kucinich? Sure, why not, but that would be a mostly-ignored clowncar.
I think you underestimate the strength of the lunacy in the left wing base.
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Old 03-20-2011, 05:36 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I think you underestimate the strength of the lunacy in the left wing base.
I sincerely hope that I am. Probably not, but it would be nice.

I can hear the protest marches led by Rev. Jackson and Sharpton now.
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Old 03-20-2011, 05:53 PM   #97
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On another note, I wonder how meme feels about Hillary vs Obama now. You know, given that Obama was reluctant to get involved and it was apparently hawkish Hillary who pushed him to overrule his defense secretary and authorize an attack for the next couple weeks or so.

She got this much out of him, and she's still fed up enough to want to quit after 2012. If Hillary was president, we might be in the middle of a land invasion that began a week ago to "liberate Libya" for all we know.
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Old 03-21-2011, 03:29 PM   #98
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Clinton has already said she won't be apart of Obamas team in 2012 so.....
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Old 03-21-2011, 04:01 PM   #99
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Clinton has already said she won't be apart of Obamas team in 2012 so.....
She might run in 2016, but given what has come out about her and Libya, I bet she'll be screamed out of the primary by an angry base.

I think she's simply sick of working for Obama and wants out.
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Old 03-21-2011, 04:05 PM   #100
Chocolate Hog Chocolate Hog is offline
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Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
She might run in 2016, but given what has come out about her and Libya, I bet she'll be screamed out of the primary by an angry base.

I think she's simply sick of working for Obama and wants out.
I agree with this 2016 seems reasonable for Hillary. I'd imagine we'll see Kuchnich, Nader, and maybe someone like Bloomberg though he switches between Republican and Democrat. Like I said Obama will face another challenge from a Democrat his name is Mitt Romney. I have no doubt Romney wins the Republican nomination.
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Old 03-21-2011, 05:10 PM   #101
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
This is correct.

Also, the Republican support for the ERA is more complicated than Saul posits, and his attempts to equate the Republicans of Lincoln to the modern day variety are outright dishonest.
Well now! That's sayin' somethin' since Dishonest Abe wasn't particularly honest.
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Old 03-21-2011, 05:10 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
On another note, I wonder how meme feels about Hillary vs Obama now. You know, given that Obama was reluctant to get involved and it was apparently hawkish Hillary who pushed him to overrule his defense secretary and authorize an attack for the next couple weeks or so.

She got this much out of him, and she's still fed up enough to want to quit after 2012. If Hillary was president, we might be in the middle of a land invasion that began a week ago to "liberate Libya" for all we know.

In the meantime Bill Kristolnacht has already called for a land invasion.
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Old 04-02-2011, 02:39 PM   #103
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Old 04-02-2011, 05:15 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Swing and a miss. I haven't stopped posting, and I have no trouble with snide comments.

Tell you what -- I'll make a bet once again to prove here that no conservatives actually believe this will happen, but are instead just saying this because it's some dumb fad you've embraced.

If there is a "major Dem challenge" to Obama in 2012, I get control of your signature for the rest of the existence of ChiefsPlanet.

If there isn't such a thing, you get mine.

Or, really, any other bet you want to come up with. That's how stupid this conjecture is.

If somebody's actually interested in putting their money where their baseless rumor mills are, let me know.

But we both know there won't be.
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I would like to bump this thread because, like most liberals, Libya has changed my mind on this issue.

I think Obama could very well face a major Democratic challenge now, if Libya continues for the rest of his first term.
Perhaps you two should get together on this sig bet.
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