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Old 02-08-2012, 11:30 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Drafting a nose = bad idea this year.

Nose tackle prospects in the draft:

Dontari Poe, Memphis -- raw, from small school, inconsistent motor.
Alameda Ta'amu, Washington -- looks great one moment, notsogreat the next, more of a 1 gap
Josh Chapman, Alabama -- a little undersized, coming off ACL injury
Nick Jean-Baptiste, Baylor -- poor man's Phil Taylor
Henry Fangupo, BYU -- old rookie, completely raw from a goofy system, will needs a couple years

Everybody else is from a small school, or is a nobody getting attention for their size alone and is raw as red meat.

Now, check this out:

Nose tackle prospects in free agency:

Paul Soliai, Dolphins -- massive 2-gap hole-clogger, no longer fits Dolphins defense
Sione Pouha, Jets -- experienced 2-gapper, talented but past prime, could put in a solid season
Sammy Lee Hill, Lions -- huge, could be a decent value acquisition, not sure how he'd fit in a 2-gap
Antonio Garay, Chargers -- more of a 1-gapper
Kelly Gregg, Chiefs -- just sayin'
Shaun Rogers, Saints -- good one-year rental for the position
Aubrayu Franklin, Saints -- more of a 1-gapper
Casey Hampton, Steelers -- outside chance he lands on the market
Amon Gordon, Chiefs -- knows our system, Crennel likes him
Bryant McKinnie, Ravens -- could fill the role
Howard Green, Packers -- more of a 1-gapper but he did crack Cassel's ribs in the preseason, soooo...

My conclusion is that the draft is very shallow at the nose position.

It's not much better in free agency, but at least you've got guys that can play there.
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Old 02-10-2012, 07:21 AM   #16
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You can nitpick any rookie. Almost anyone over 320 is not going to have a high motor, so that's a non-starter. This team has needed an NT since Pioli got here. I'd rather have a young one we can work with and have here for 8 years. If we were to get Poe or Ta'amu I would be thrilled. Ta-amu may be one gap now, but that doesn't mean he can't be coached up. You can't teach 330. Guy has the body for the position. I'd also be happy with Chapman in the 3rd. Dude has the right attitude and comes from a great system.
Defensive tackles is one of those positions where "high motor" just doesn't often exist.

We've discussed here for the better part of 10 years - there's a reason top-end defensive tackles often bust and there's a reason that guys VERY rarely ever play better for another team other than they did for the one that drafted them.

These are guys with an unheard-of combination of athleticism and sheer size. They've really never had to work at anything in their football lives and that light doesn't just "come on" when they get to the NFL.
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Old 02-10-2012, 08:10 AM   #17
Chiefnj2 Chiefnj2 is offline
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I think Poe is a good late first round prospect, but I just don't see him as a 3-4 NT. No way. He's a quick, gap penetrating lineman.

Here is a clip of Memphis v. Tennessee. It's not a Poe highlight, but you can see him (#74) standing out to a degree on the Memphis line. He's chasing down RBs from behind and penetrating, etc.

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Old 02-10-2012, 08:26 AM   #18
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Interesting to see how fast he is.

He doesn't really look 350 there...
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Old 02-10-2012, 02:06 PM   #19
whoman69 whoman69 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefnj2 View Post
I think Poe is a good late first round prospect, but I just don't see him as a 3-4 NT. No way. He's a quick, gap penetrating lineman.

Here is a clip of Memphis v. Tennessee. It's not a Poe highlight, but you can see him (#74) standing out to a degree on the Memphis line. He's chasing down RBs from behind and penetrating, etc.

If he's going to able to demand a double team, he can be a 3-4 nt.
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Old 02-10-2012, 02:54 PM   #20
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I still contend, if we don't trade up for a QB, that getting Poe is the way to go. He's athletic, as Hell for a big man. He commands a double-team and he still collapses the pocket. We need a NT and this dude can play football.
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Old 02-11-2012, 05:07 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Bryant McKinnie, Ravens -- could fill the role
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Old 02-11-2012, 07:48 AM   #22
Chiefnj2 Chiefnj2 is offline
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IMO Poe isn't suited to be a NT in a 34. He's not an anchor in the middle.
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Old 02-11-2012, 10:58 AM   #23
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**** you, Direckshun.

FANGUPO!
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Old 02-11-2012, 11:01 AM   #24
O.city O.city is offline
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I know he will cost some money, but does Soliai really fit our system?

I remember that being a reason last year why we didn't target Franklin.
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Old 02-11-2012, 11:04 AM   #25
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I know he will cost some money, but does Soliai really fit our system?

I remember that being a reason last year why we didn't target Franklin.
Soliai is a 2-gapper; he fits our system better than Franklin.

Then again, I was never convinced that Franklin wouldn't be decent 2-gapper. Unfortunately he cost money and effort, something that we were evidently unwilling to put out there last off-season.
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Old 02-11-2012, 11:06 AM   #26
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Then we should probably look past Soliai?


Isn't he alot younger than Franklin was?
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Old 02-11-2012, 11:59 AM   #27
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IMO Poe isn't suited to be a NT in a 34. He's not an anchor in the middle.
Come on, bud. He's 6'5", 350 lbs. He's obviously a prime candidate for NT. He also commands constant double-teams and is strong as an ox. He's not your average tackle, because he's actually fast for his size and a work-out warrior to boot. Sounds like a NT to me, who can actually flush the pocket.


Why don't you think he's a NT?
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Old 02-11-2012, 12:02 PM   #28
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I think he's a little too tall.
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Old 02-11-2012, 12:41 PM   #29
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I think he's a little too tall.
Yup.

Looks like he'd make a great 5-tech or maybe even a nice disruptive under-tackle, but as a 2-gap, people will be able to get under his pads a little easier. He'll have a pretty tough time keeping leverage as a 2-gap, IMO.
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Old 02-11-2012, 01:47 PM   #30
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Come on, bud. He's 6'5", 350 lbs. He's obviously a prime candidate for NT. He also commands constant double-teams and is strong as an ox. He's not your average tackle, because he's actually fast for his size and a work-out warrior to boot. Sounds like a NT to me, who can actually flush the pocket.


Why don't you think he's a NT?
I don't think he's going to come in at 350. Even if he does, he's a very different 340-350 than Ted Washington or MT. Cody. He's very light on his feet. He doesn't command double teams in the run game. Memphis moved him around the line and used his speed and athleticism. IMO, he has much more potential in a 34 as a DE than DT.

Some scouting reports that aren't based on hearsay:

nfldraftmonsters.comRun Defense: Poe is a pretty strong run defender, but he doesn’t project to the nose tackle position as well as I expected him to. As I mentioned earlier, he has an impressive get-off for his size which allows him to penetrate into the backfield and disrupt running plays on occasion. However, he gets pushed around much easier than you would expect him to given his great combination of size and weight room strength. Theoretically he should be incredibly difficult to move off of the line of scrimmage, even in the face of double teams, but too many times I saw him get pushed off of the line of scrimmage by just one offensive lineman. That surprised and disappointed me, and made me doubt his potential to be a 3-4 NT at all in the NFL. He struggles with leverage on a pretty regular basis because of his height and that contributes to him getting pushed off the line of scrimmage.

bleacherreport.com
I have talked to an NFL scout who sees Poe a lot more like a Haloti Ngata (don't freak out, I meant style, not skill) in that he would actually act more like a defensive end in a 3-4 scheme.

sidelinescouting.com
Lacks the anchor and balance of an elite 3-4 nose tackle prospect and disappeared for stretches at a time playing at Memphis; moving him off the line of scrimmage is easier than expected... Doesn't always maintain gap responsibilities, blockers can easily seal him out of the play... Lacks ideal awareness of the ball carrier, he often ends up out of position to prevent backs from crossing the line of scrimmage... Staying low is difficult, comes out of his stance too high and can be driven off the ball

Read more: http://sidelinescouting.com/rankings...#ixzz1m6m2NNBc

scoutsnotebook.com
The downside is that he’s a big guy who doesn’t always play like it. He’s single-blocked way too often for a guy with his size/power. Poe should be tossing blockers around like rag dolls. He’s more interested in using his quickness and agility to beat blockers. Poe needs a tough DL coach to ride him until he starts playing up to his size. Poe played both NT and under tackle at Memphis. He has a good motor. He’ll chase plays. He runs well for a guy his size. I wonder if a 3-4 team will try him at DE. Poe might be more natural at that spot.
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