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Old 02-09-2012, 12:30 AM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Drafting a nose = bad idea this year.

Nose tackle prospects in the draft:

Dontari Poe, Memphis -- raw, from small school, inconsistent motor.
Alameda Ta'amu, Washington -- looks great one moment, notsogreat the next, more of a 1 gap
Josh Chapman, Alabama -- a little undersized, coming off ACL injury
Nick Jean-Baptiste, Baylor -- poor man's Phil Taylor
Henry Fangupo, BYU -- old rookie, completely raw from a goofy system, will needs a couple years

Everybody else is from a small school, or is a nobody getting attention for their size alone and is raw as red meat.

Now, check this out:

Nose tackle prospects in free agency:

Paul Soliai, Dolphins -- massive 2-gap hole-clogger, no longer fits Dolphins defense
Sione Pouha, Jets -- experienced 2-gapper, talented but past prime, could put in a solid season
Sammy Lee Hill, Lions -- huge, could be a decent value acquisition, not sure how he'd fit in a 2-gap
Antonio Garay, Chargers -- more of a 1-gapper
Kelly Gregg, Chiefs -- just sayin'
Shaun Rogers, Saints -- good one-year rental for the position
Aubrayu Franklin, Saints -- more of a 1-gapper
Casey Hampton, Steelers -- outside chance he lands on the market
Amon Gordon, Chiefs -- knows our system, Crennel likes him
Bryant McKinnie, Ravens -- could fill the role
Howard Green, Packers -- more of a 1-gapper but he did crack Cassel's ribs in the preseason, soooo...

My conclusion is that the draft is very shallow at the nose position.

It's not much better in free agency, but at least you've got guys that can play there.
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Old 02-19-2012, 10:50 PM   #61
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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I keep forgetting UP is a Memphis homer.
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Old 02-19-2012, 10:54 PM   #62
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Old 02-27-2012, 07:19 PM   #63
whoman69 whoman69 is offline
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"Defensive Tackle is the strongest position in the draft," said Charley Casserly of NFL Network, an opinion shared by another former NFL GM Michael Lombardi.
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:51 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by whoman69 View Post
"Defensive Tackle is the strongest position in the draft," said Charley Casserly of NFL Network, an opinion shared by another former NFL GM Michael Lombardi.
There's a ton of inside talent going to be available and I heard Mayock say he though there could be as many as SIX tackles taken in the 1st round.

That being said, very few of them project to 3-4 NT.
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Old 02-28-2012, 11:44 AM   #65
saphojunkie saphojunkie is offline
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IMO Poe isn't suited to be a NT in a 34. He's not an anchor in the middle.
Okay, but in, like, EVERY professional scout's eyes, he is. So...
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Old 02-28-2012, 11:57 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by saphojunkie View Post
Okay, but in, like, EVERY professional scout's eyes, he is. So...
Except almost every scouting report says something to the effect of:

Negatives -- Pass rush ability is subpar despite impressive get-off, struggles to disengage once blocked, limited potential in this area, only flashes a rip move and nothing else... Lacks the anchor and balance of an elite 3-4 nose tackle prospect and disappeared for stretches at a time playing at Memphis; moving him off the line of scrimmage is easier than expected... Doesn't always maintain gap responsibilities, blockers can easily seal him out of the play... Lacks ideal awareness of the ball carrier, he often ends up out of position to prevent backs from crossing the line of scrimmage... Staying low is difficult, comes out of his stance too high and can be driven off the ball; his height serves as a disadvantage, shorter centers have the natural leverage advantage and can get their hands into his chest, doesn't disengage well versus double teams... Gives up a ton of leverage at 6'5", ideal 3-4 nose tackle height is around 6'1" or 6'2" such as Casey Hampton, Vince Wilfork, Aubrayo Franklin or B.J. Raji... His ability to line up at nose tackle in a three-man front is questioned due to his lack of leverage and balance, has the size of a 3-4 nose but not the skill set, would be a more natural fit in a 4-3 or as a 3-4 DE (5-technique), doesn't project to 3-4 nose as well as his weight would suggest

Read more: http://sidelinescouting.com/rankings...#ixzz1nhUbOey5
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Old 02-28-2012, 12:59 PM   #67
saphojunkie saphojunkie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefnj2 View Post
Except almost every scouting report says something to the effect of:

Negatives -- Pass rush ability is subpar despite impressive get-off, struggles to disengage once blocked, limited potential in this area, only flashes a rip move and nothing else... Lacks the anchor and balance of an elite 3-4 nose tackle prospect and disappeared for stretches at a time playing at Memphis; moving him off the line of scrimmage is easier than expected... Doesn't always maintain gap responsibilities, blockers can easily seal him out of the play... Lacks ideal awareness of the ball carrier, he often ends up out of position to prevent backs from crossing the line of scrimmage... Staying low is difficult, comes out of his stance too high and can be driven off the ball; his height serves as a disadvantage, shorter centers have the natural leverage advantage and can get their hands into his chest, doesn't disengage well versus double teams... Gives up a ton of leverage at 6'5", ideal 3-4 nose tackle height is around 6'1" or 6'2" such as Casey Hampton, Vince Wilfork, Aubrayo Franklin or B.J. Raji... His ability to line up at nose tackle in a three-man front is questioned due to his lack of leverage and balance, has the size of a 3-4 nose but not the skill set, would be a more natural fit in a 4-3 or as a 3-4 DE (5-technique), doesn't project to 3-4 nose as well as his weight would suggest

Read more: http://sidelinescouting.com/rankings...#ixzz1nhUbOey5
Just to be clear - Poe is 6'3", not the 6'5 he was reported as pre-combine.

Phil Taylor is 6'3". Terrence Cody is 6'4". Poe is an inch taller than wilfork and Raji.

I have no idea if he would work as a nose tackle or not. However, I am saying that one inch of height will not be the difference between the hall of fame and a bust.

Just as I had complete faith in Herm Edwards being able to draft and develop cornerbacks, I have complete faith in Romeo Crennel with defensive linemen. I'd rather have a physically gifted, raw player that doesn't have a ton of bad habits to unlearn.


Todd McShay is comparing him to Ngata:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft...combinebuzz227

I'm not crazy on the Poe train - I'd rather have Soliai and DeCastro. But if we draft Poe, I won't be crying about another top pick going to the DL.
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Old 04-26-2012, 10:32 PM   #68
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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bump.
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Old 04-27-2012, 12:18 AM   #69
Nightfyre Nightfyre is offline
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I really liked that kid from Georgia in next years draft. Not remembering his name off the top of my head. Too bad we drafted Poe.
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Old 04-27-2012, 12:49 AM   #70
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I really liked that kid from Georgia in next years draft. Not remembering his name off the top of my head. Too bad we drafted Poe.
Well then, it looks like we are getting a QB next yr in the 1st rd after Cassel fails again. Guess Pioli decided to deal with the weak run D up the middle this year and decided next yr.'s QB crop coming out is better than the lower half of the QB crop this yr.(Tannehill,Weeden,Cousins,Osweiler).

This buys time for Pioli hoping Cassel finally comes around which won't happen.
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:17 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Nose tackle prospects in the draft:

Dontari Poe, Memphis -- raw, from small school, inconsistent motor.
spot on
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Old 04-27-2012, 02:50 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by saphojunkie View Post
I'm not crazy on the Poe train - I'd rather have Soliai and DeCastro. But if we draft Poe, I won't be crying about another top pick going to the DL.
Is this the Poe train?



Or maybe more like this?

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Old 05-02-2012, 12:14 PM   #73
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I didn't realize how bad the NT draft was. I thought Chapman and Ta'amu were better than 4th and 5th round picks. Sometimes it is easier to tell about a guy by how far he falls because so many times pass them 3 or 4 times. These guys were much worse than I thought.

I guess that is why we took Poe so high. Because there were really no other viable options in the draft.
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Old 05-03-2012, 04:49 PM   #74
whoman69 whoman69 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcbubb View Post
I didn't realize how bad the NT draft was. I thought Chapman and Ta'amu were better than 4th and 5th round picks. Sometimes it is easier to tell about a guy by how far he falls because so many times pass them 3 or 4 times. These guys were much worse than I thought.

I guess that is why we took Poe so high. Because there were really no other viable options in the draft.
Or perhaps the other teams that knew they had a need crossed us off their list of competitors and knew they could get their guy later in the draft.
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Old 05-03-2012, 05:41 PM   #75
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Or perhaps the other teams that knew they had a need crossed us off their list of competitors and knew they could get their guy later in the draft.
Not only this, but how many teams NEED a starting NT? For teams other than the Chiefs, depth doesn't usually get drafted until round 4. Bubb has been making me scratch my head a lot lately.

Same thing happened to Stanzi. Teams that NEEDED QB's took them early. Not only that, but he was passed up for guys he was ranked higher than universally b/c they were several picks. i.e. He doesn't have a hand cannon, but gets great placement on the deep ball.
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