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Old 03-04-2012, 04:18 AM  
Taco John Taco John is offline
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Obama birth certificate to turn into election year issue?

I've pretty well ignored this whole thing, but this is looking like it's not going away any time soon.


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Old 03-05-2012, 06:06 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Well, fact is, Snopes has been wrong a few times too.
I don't think anyone claimed that snopes was edited by almighty God from the heavens.

They have no agenda, cite reliable sources, logically and clearly explain their conclusion, and they correct the rare mistake when it is pointed out.

If snopes is not a reliable source, then reliable sources pretty much do not exist and all thats left to us is to babble our opinions without needing to back anything up.
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Old 03-05-2012, 06:15 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewChief View Post
Considering snopes is pretty much the definitive debunking site on the internet, I don't see why the quoting of it is laughable?
pretty much; quoted for truth.
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Old 03-05-2012, 06:18 PM   #123
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Old 03-05-2012, 06:20 PM   #124
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
I don't think anyone claimed that snopes was edited by almighty God from the heavens.

They have no agenda, cite reliable sources, logically and clearly explain their conclusion, and they correct the rare mistake when it is pointed out.

If snopes is not a reliable source, then reliable sources pretty much do not exist and all thats left to us is to babble our opinions without needing to back anything up.
Well, I am not saying they are edited by almighty God. I forget the issue, but there was one they were never able to debunk or verify with inclusive evidence. Yet it was still relied on here. I wouldn't say they had no agenda on that one...even if their agenda is to claim they are the best source for debunking so they just took something on they couldn't debunk effectively. Then again, they may have been provided data from a source that had an agenda.

The issue may pop into my head eventually. I just can't recall it off-hand.
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Old 03-05-2012, 06:29 PM   #125
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Ah yes, it was on the Norman Thomas quote.

What can you expect from a this Mom and Pop outfit, one who is a Canadian.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showt...=Snopes&page=2


Rumour has it they're funded by the left, in particular Soros. Well that's what comes up in that previous thread.
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Old 03-05-2012, 06:29 PM   #126
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I tried to understand anything you guys have been saying and I just can't. My head is about to explode.
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Old 03-05-2012, 06:47 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
Anyone who has worked with photoshop would be able to easily identify this document as a manufactured fabrication pretty easily. I've tried to rationalize how this can be as it is - but there's no scanner that I've ever heard of that vectorizes individual elements of any document and places them on their own layer in a PDF document. The entire notion is a panacea for designers. I only WISH such a scanner existed.
Hell, I didn't want to get into this... but ok. I don't doubt your knowledge of Photoshop, but I'm guessing you don't do much on the low-level programming side of images. Remember I mentioned earlier that many many scanners use something similar to OCR by default... I basically said it's like OCR in that it picks out elements and puts them into layers. Well, to get more technical, that is called MRC or Mixed Raster Content. If you take a document and scan it into Acrobat or Illustrator then hit "Optimize Scan" you get the EXACT same "links", "layers", etc etc If you use a different scanner software that uses an MRC algorithm by default, you will get the exact same thing.

There are plenty of scanner software programs that DO apply MRC by default. I don't know FOR CERTAIN if any scanner/copier with the software built in currently uses MRC by default but it is very possible. I know the old Xerox copiers used to use it but that has been awhile so who knows right now.

Sorry, but a Photoshop or Illustrator "expert" just doesn't have anything close to the necessary knowledge base to be an "expert" on this subject. The "experts" to consult on this are people who are experts with Adobe Acrobat and I mean TRUE experts not some guy who has used it a lot... but someone who understand the very inner workings. Or someone who has spent considerable time encoding/decoding image files programatically.

BTW, nothing is being "vectorized" the guy who said that is an idiot and used the wrong term.. he WAS basically correct though. The RASTER image is broken up into MORE raster images to allow for more efficient compression. Those rasters then show up as layers or links when you import into Photoshop or Illustrator.

I can get you links to MRC if you want to study up on it. I can also show you where it has been implemented for a VERY long time in all sorts of different Scanner/PDF capture systems.
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Old 03-05-2012, 07:04 PM   #128
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I never knew there was a way to scan a document into Illustrator either. You cannot scan into Illustrator because scanning is raster based. You have to scan into PS and then place into Illustrator. An end user would be able to know if this can be done in Illustrator. There's different types and levels of experts anyway.

I think this MRC argument was discussed here in an earlier thread with links to it. It wasn't fool-proof if I recall.

Then there's this....so:
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner...athan-goulding


That's still not scanning into Illustrator though. It's converted and optimized afterwards. I am going to try it though, as I don't know of anyone that uses it this way in my profession.
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Old 03-05-2012, 07:05 PM   #129
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I thought the original was finally released? Has something changed?
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Old 03-05-2012, 07:17 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
I thought the original was finally released? Has something changed?
A scan which is an image of the original was released. Pay attention.
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Old 03-05-2012, 07:18 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by Setsuna View Post
I tried to understand anything you guys have been saying and I just can't. My head is about to explode.
Occam's Razor. Don't worry about it. It's a bunch of conspiracy bullshit from "experts" armed with just enough "knowledge" to make them dangerous.
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Old 03-05-2012, 07:23 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by NewChief View Post
Occam's Razor. Don't worry about it. It's a bunch of conspiracy bullshit from "experts" armed with just enough "knowledge" to make them dangerous.
This does not quite up to what a conspiracy really is. It's just an allegation of basic fraud. Something not uncommon to politicians.
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Old 03-05-2012, 07:42 PM   #133
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So suppose this was true....and it gets proven definitively that Obama wasnt born in the U.S.

What happens then? Does he get stripped of the presidency immediately? Do they strip all his accomplishments and the last 3 years like it never happened? Just asking....
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Old 03-05-2012, 07:59 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
I thought the original was finally released? Has something changed?
Everyone stop! Donger just woke up from a coma, let's catch him up.
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Old 03-05-2012, 08:09 PM   #135
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Everyone stop! Donger just woke up from a coma, let's catch him up.
Meh. I've been busy recently. The copy of the long form certificate is sufficient.

This is silly.
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