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Old 03-08-2012, 12:50 PM  
Bump Bump is offline
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Neighborhood watch captain shoots innocent black youth and doesn't even get arrested

http://news.yahoo.com/family-florida...044537742.html




ORLANDO, Florida (Reuters) - The family of a 17-year-old African-American boy shot to death last month in his gated Florida community by a white Neighborhood Watch captain wants to see the captain arrested, the family's lawyer said on Wednesday.

Trayvon Martin was shot dead after he took a break from watching NBA All-Star game television coverage to walk 10 minutes to a convenience store to buy snacks including Skittles candy requested by his 13-year-old brother, Chad, the family's lawyer Ben Crump said.

"He was a good kid," Crump said in an interview, adding that the family would issue a call for the Watch captain's arrest at a news conference on Thursday. "On his way home, a Neighborhood Watch loose cannon shot and killed him."

[Related: Fla. teen avoids deportation]

Trayvon, who lived in Miami with his mother, had been visiting his father and stepmother in a gated townhome community called The Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford, 20 miles north of Orlando.

As Trayvon returned to the townhome, Sanford police received a 911 call reporting a suspicious person.

Although names are blacked out on the police report, Crump and media reports at the time of the shooting identified the caller as George Zimmerman who is listed in the community's newsletter as the Neighborhood Watch captain.

Without waiting for police to arrive, Crump said, Zimmerman confronted Trayvon, who was on the sidewalk near his home. By the time police got there, Trayvon was dead of a single gunshot to the chest.

"What do the police find in his pocket? Skittles," Crump said. "A can of Arizona ice tea in his jacket pocket and Skittles in his front pocket for his brother Chad."

Zimmerman could not be reached for comment on Wednesday evening at a phone number listed for him on the community's newsletter.

Crump said the family was concerned that police might decide to consider the shooting as self defense, and that police have ignored the family's request for a copy of the original 911 call, which they think will shed light on the incidents.

"If the 911 protocol across the country held to form here, they told him not to get involved. He disobeyed that order," said Ryan Julison, a spokesman for the family.

"He (Zimmerman) didn't have to get out of his car," said Crump, who has prepared a public records lawsuit to file on Thursday if the family doesn't get the 911 tape. "If he never gets out of his car, there is no reason for self-defense. Trayvon only has skittles. He has the gun."

Since Trayvon, a high school junior who wanted to be a pilot, was black and Zimmerman is white, Crump said race is "the 600 pound elephant in the room."

"Why is this kid suspicious in the first place? I think a stereotype must have been placed on the kid," Crump said.

(Editing By Cynthia Johnston and Peter Bohan)

Last edited by Bump; 07-13-2013 at 12:19 AM..
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:08 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by Marcellus View Post
Was he looking to kill someone? A 25 year old white dude living in a gated community? Give me a ****ing break.
Why did he have a gun on him? The thought that he might have to use the gun must have crossed his mind.
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:08 PM   #167
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I think KS has Cassel Doctrine and a Stand Your Ground/No Retreat law as well.
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:10 PM   #168
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IMO, it doesn't look good for Zimmerman. In order for me to not think he should be in jail for what he did, given everyone's background, he'd have to convince me of a story that I have a hard time believing.

First of all, he should not have gotten out of his car and confronted him. Obviously. We can move on from that, because that alone isn't enough to convict, if he wants to go up to someone walking in his neighborhood for a chat, there's nothing legally wrong with that.

From that point, we have a fight in the grass where the white guy felt he had to shoot the black kid in self-defense.

We do not know what happened from the time he got out of his car, to the fight, and hopefully the 911 tape has some clues, but if not, we can probably guess.

2 most likely scenarios:

1) He got out of his car, drew his gun, may or may not had it pointed at the black kid, but was brandishing his weapon, yelling what he was doing in his neighborhood, black kid freaked and thinks he's about to get his ass shot, and he reacts in what he thinks is self-defense to try to get the gun away, but gets shot anyway.

2) White guy gets out with the gun tucked away somewhere out of sight, casually strolls up to the black kid to ask him what he's doing. Maybe he implies that he's not welcome or implies he's a lying thug when he says his parents live here, which offends the black kid who, inexplicably, just up and starts to beat Zimmerman down.

I'm having a lot of trouble believing #2. I don't have a problem with him carrying a gun, but it shouldn't have been out. (Hell he shouldn't have confronted him at all and let the police handle it, but we've gotten past that already) I don't know if its murder or not, but presuming #1, its got to be some kind of felony.
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:10 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefnj2 View Post
Why did he have a gun on him? The thought that he might have to use the gun must have crossed his mind.
If you carry a gun, yes you need to be prepared to use it, which apparently he was.

Did he leave his house expecting to shoot and kill someone? I don't see it.

Same way I don't expect he left his house thinking he was going to be bleeding from his nose and head a bit later.
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:10 PM   #170
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The real problem here was. Adult >>>> teen. Dude ****ed up because he's older and wiser. /thread
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:11 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by pr_capone View Post
If it is a gated community, there is likely a covenant that details the relationship between the people within said community and whatever deal the HOA has set up with XYZ security co.
It is my understanding (likely flawed) that this guy wasn't a security guard. Rather, he was a neighborhood watch guy ... just a friggin' guy who lives there (I suppose) and signed up at the clubhouse.

Hell, now I'm beginning to wonder what kind of "gated" community this was. They come in all varieties, you know.

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Old 03-08-2012, 04:13 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by Marcellus View Post
You think he was looking to kill somebody? How many people do you think have a true capacity to kill in cold blood?

****ing ridiculous. Most legal gun owners, most meaning 99.99% of them, wouldn't shoot a human unless it was the most dire of circumstances.

Was the guy a dumbass? Apparently he was. Was he looking to kill someone? A 25 year old white dude living in a gated community? Give me a ****ing break.
No, he went out with a gun in his pocket (or waist, or holster) for a confrontation. You know this because otherwise the incident would not have happened.

This guy was the catalyst for an altercation that ended in someone's death. Am I wrong?
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:13 PM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FAX View Post
It is my understanding (likely flawed) that this guy wasn't a security guard. Rather, he was a neighborhood watch guy ... just a friggin' guy who lives there (I suppose) and signed up at the clubhouse.

Hell, now I'm beginning to wonder what kind of "gated" community this was. They come in all varieties, you know.

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I would think the same would apply for a neighborhood watch as long as it was sanctioned by the HOA.

Of course... don't know for sure. Just a shot in the dark.
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:14 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by WhiteWhale View Post
No, he went out with a gun in his pocket (or waist, or holster) for a confrontation. You know this because otherwise the incident would not have happened.

This guy was the catalyst for an altercation that ended in someone's death. Am I wrong?
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:15 PM   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteWhale View Post
No, he went out with a gun in his pocket (or waist, or holster) for a confrontation. You know this because otherwise the incident would not have happened.

This guy was the catalyst for an altercation that ended in someone's death. Am I wrong?
I'm inclined to think he probably should be in jail, but there is nothing fundamentally wrong, at all, with carrying concealed if you have the proper permit. If he wasn't carrying concealed, that is a completely different situation.
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:17 PM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pr_capone View Post
I would think the same would apply for a neighborhood watch as long as it was sanctioned by the HOA.

Of course... don't know for sure. Just a shot in the dark.
I'm fairly certain I see what you did there
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:18 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by pr_capone View Post
I would think the same would apply for a neighborhood watch as long as it was sanctioned by the HOA.

Of course... don't know for sure. Just a shot in the dark.
I don't know. We used to have a "neighborhood watch". Big deal. They didn't patrol around heavy or what not. It was more like a phone tree.

Again, there are many assumptions being made. I know apartment complexes over in Little Mexico which are "gated" and I wouldn't walk alone around there at night. The place where this occurred could have been any kind of neighborhood ...

In other words, just because it's "gated" doesn't mean it's exclusive or anything.

Hell, I'm very suspicious and I got in one.

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Old 03-08-2012, 04:18 PM   #178
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Sorry if I'm not responding in this thread. I've moved on to the second high profile senseless murder using a gun in this country.
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:18 PM   #179
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Who instigated the confrontation? The guy walking down the street minding his own business or the wannabe who ran up on him?
The guy was a member of the neighborhood watch in a gated community. Perhaps asking a stranger why they're there is what the neighborhood watch guys are supposed to do?

Look, I realize there are a certain segment of you people who assume anybody who owns or carries a gun is a psychotic killer in waiting. I live in a city, I'm surrounded by the Assimilated every day. But in places where conceal carry is legal, people do leave their homes and walk around with loaded guns for personal protection, and for no other reason. The idea that they all dream of the day they'll have cause to pop people is assinine.
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:19 PM   #180
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I'm inclined to think he probably should be in jail, but there is nothing fundamentally wrong, at all, with carrying concealed if you have the proper permit. If he wasn't carrying concealed, that is a completely different situation.
No, there is nothing fundamentally wrong with that. In many areas I'd flat out encourage it.

One should avoid being an instigator if they're going to rely on a gun in a fist fight though. If he made any effort to physically restrain the kid, the kid had every right to whip his ass. That's what I mean about people who treat guns frivolously. We don't have gun rights to bail you out when your mouth writes a check your butt can't cash.
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