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Old 03-08-2012, 11:50 AM  
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Neighborhood watch captain shoots innocent black youth and doesn't even get arrested

http://news.yahoo.com/family-florida...044537742.html




ORLANDO, Florida (Reuters) - The family of a 17-year-old African-American boy shot to death last month in his gated Florida community by a white Neighborhood Watch captain wants to see the captain arrested, the family's lawyer said on Wednesday.

Trayvon Martin was shot dead after he took a break from watching NBA All-Star game television coverage to walk 10 minutes to a convenience store to buy snacks including Skittles candy requested by his 13-year-old brother, Chad, the family's lawyer Ben Crump said.

"He was a good kid," Crump said in an interview, adding that the family would issue a call for the Watch captain's arrest at a news conference on Thursday. "On his way home, a Neighborhood Watch loose cannon shot and killed him."

[Related: Fla. teen avoids deportation]

Trayvon, who lived in Miami with his mother, had been visiting his father and stepmother in a gated townhome community called The Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford, 20 miles north of Orlando.

As Trayvon returned to the townhome, Sanford police received a 911 call reporting a suspicious person.

Although names are blacked out on the police report, Crump and media reports at the time of the shooting identified the caller as George Zimmerman who is listed in the community's newsletter as the Neighborhood Watch captain.

Without waiting for police to arrive, Crump said, Zimmerman confronted Trayvon, who was on the sidewalk near his home. By the time police got there, Trayvon was dead of a single gunshot to the chest.

"What do the police find in his pocket? Skittles," Crump said. "A can of Arizona ice tea in his jacket pocket and Skittles in his front pocket for his brother Chad."

Zimmerman could not be reached for comment on Wednesday evening at a phone number listed for him on the community's newsletter.

Crump said the family was concerned that police might decide to consider the shooting as self defense, and that police have ignored the family's request for a copy of the original 911 call, which they think will shed light on the incidents.

"If the 911 protocol across the country held to form here, they told him not to get involved. He disobeyed that order," said Ryan Julison, a spokesman for the family.

"He (Zimmerman) didn't have to get out of his car," said Crump, who has prepared a public records lawsuit to file on Thursday if the family doesn't get the 911 tape. "If he never gets out of his car, there is no reason for self-defense. Trayvon only has skittles. He has the gun."

Since Trayvon, a high school junior who wanted to be a pilot, was black and Zimmerman is white, Crump said race is "the 600 pound elephant in the room."

"Why is this kid suspicious in the first place? I think a stereotype must have been placed on the kid," Crump said.

(Editing By Cynthia Johnston and Peter Bohan)

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Old 03-21-2012, 08:32 PM   #811
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Originally Posted by Brock View Post
I don't care how it looks to you, you who apparently don't know the definition of murder 1.

Engage in mindless namecalling with someone else.
Surrreeee.....Why don't you explain 'the worst' then...

You are just backtracking because you look like a fool.
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Old 03-21-2012, 08:35 PM   #812
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Originally Posted by Brock View Post
I don't care how it looks to you, you who apparently don't know the definition of murder 1.
I submit it is you who does not know the definition of murder 1.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder

Many jurisdictions divide murder by degrees. The most common divisions are between first and second degree murder. Generally, second degree murder is common law murder, and first degree is an aggravated form. The aggravating factors of first degree murder are a specific intent to kill, premeditation, and deliberation. In addition, murder committed by acts such as strangulation, poisoning, or lying in wait are also treated as first degree murder.[5]

This is murder 2 at the most severe end of the spectrum.
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Old 03-21-2012, 08:43 PM   #813
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It just pisses me off i guess that it seems like a majority of people are willing to "assume the worst" about this guy...

I feel strongly that everyone deserves to be presumed innocent, until proven guilty.

When I actually see someone come out and say they 'assume the worst' (the worst I could come up wit is Murder 1 / w special circumstances) instead of holdong off on that assumption and waiting to see what the grand jury finds, and then waiting for a trial...it pisses me off.

I understand the kid died, yes it is ****ed up....but there is more at stake here than this one kid's life....How we as a society handle shit like this is the measure of us all. Rushing to judgment, assuming the worst about Zimmerman while assuming the best about Trayvon, these things in my mind are the measure of an ill educated, sound byte oriented, ADHD / ritalin society that unfortunately is the reality.

God help us.
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Old 03-21-2012, 08:44 PM   #814
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
It just pisses me off i guess that it seems like a majority of people are willing to "assume the worst" about this guy...

I feel strongly that everyone deserves to be presumed innocent, until proven guilty.

When I actually see someone come out and say they 'assume the worst' (the worst I could come up wit is Murder 1 / w special circumstances) instead of holdong off on that assumption and waiting to see what the grand jury finds, and then waiting for a trial...it pisses me off.

I understand the kid died, yes it is ****ed up....but there is more at stake here than this one kid's life....How we as a society handle shit like this is the measure of us all. Rushing to judgment, assuming the worst about Zimmerman while assuming the best about Trayvon, these things in my mind are the measure of an ill educated, sound byte oriented, ADHD / ritalin society that unfortunately is the reality.

God help us.
Agreed.
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Old 03-21-2012, 08:47 PM   #815
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As a citizen of this state I had no ****ing idea that you could pull out a gun and shoot someone and not even be arrested, even if they never touched you. They make a threatning move and you state that you felt a chance of great bodily harm and thats all you need for your get out of jail card. Thats some ****ed up shit.
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Old 03-21-2012, 08:49 PM   #816
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As a citizen of this state I had no ****ing idea that you could pull out a gun and shoot someone and not even be arrested, even if they never touched you.
Oh god.....

You do realize this is not what happened in this case, right?

A simple google search of the more than 3000 front page headlines will tell you that the shooter has injuries to his face from punching, as well as the back of his head, presumably from wrestling with the victim or getting knocked down by a punch.
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Old 03-21-2012, 10:10 PM   #817
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Originally Posted by notorious View Post
Nah, the thread needed burst.


We really don't know what happened, so arguing is a pretty futile exercise.



Nobody has asked the hard question: He was a good kid, so why in the hell would he attack someone?

This is the hard part to swallow.
I don't know why people keep presuming this is what happened, then rush to apologize for or explain it as the kid was obviously scared, blah blah blah.

Its not hard to come up with a very plausible, if not highly probable alternative explanation. Keep in mind, Zimmerman is chasing down one of those (his words) "f'ing coons" who "always get away", what do you think he was going to do, keep an eye on him? The kid was near his house, he'd just run in and yell for adult backup.

What is more likely is that Zimmerman started the fight, by catching up to him, grabbing him, tackling him, whatever. This was one guy who wasn't going to get away from wannabe cop, he would hold him until the cops get there.

So ok, big angry guy catches and grabs or tackles the kid, at that point, as far as the kid is concerned, game on, right? A few punches later, Zimmerman ends the unnecessary, illegal fight that he started.
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Old 03-21-2012, 10:13 PM   #818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
Oh god.....

You do realize this is not what happened in this case, right?

A simple google search of the more than 3000 front page headlines will tell you that the shooter has injuries to his face from punching, as well as the back of his head, presumably from wrestling with the victim or getting knocked down by a punch.
I was just talking about the law. Not this individual case.
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Old 03-21-2012, 10:46 PM   #819
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I don't know why people keep presuming this is what happened, then rush to apologize for or explain it as the kid was obviously scared, blah blah blah.

Its not hard to come up with a very plausible, if not highly probable alternative explanation. Keep in mind, Zimmerman is chasing down one of those (his words) "f'ing coons" who "always get away", what do you think he was going to do, keep an eye on him? The kid was near his house, he'd just run in and yell for adult backup.

What is more likely is that Zimmerman started the fight, by catching up to him, grabbing him, tackling him, whatever. This was one guy who wasn't going to get away from wannabe cop, he would hold him until the cops get there.

So ok, big angry guy catches and grabs or tackles the kid, at that point, as far as the kid is concerned, game on, right? A few punches later, Zimmerman ends the unnecessary, illegal fight that he started.
So you don't like presumptions and then..................that?
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:25 PM   #820
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Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
"f'ing coons"
Can you honestly say you hear this in the audio? Please give a link to the audio with a time (minutes/seconds) so that we can all judge...

I haven't heard this clearly yet.
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:26 PM   #821
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So you don't like presumptions and then..................that?
Agree...way too many presumptions in there, along with "facts" that are not true AFAIK.
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:29 PM   #822
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
It just pisses me off i guess that it seems like a majority of people are willing to "assume the worst" about this guy...

I feel strongly that everyone deserves to be presumed innocent, until proven guilty.

When I actually see someone come out and say they 'assume the worst' (the worst I could come up wit is Murder 1 / w special circumstances) instead of holdong off on that assumption and waiting to see what the grand jury finds, and then waiting for a trial...it pisses me off.

I understand the kid died, yes it is ****ed up....but there is more at stake here than this one kid's life....How we as a society handle shit like this is the measure of us all. Rushing to judgment, assuming the worst about Zimmerman while assuming the best about Trayvon, these things in my mind are the measure of an ill educated, sound byte oriented, ADHD / ritalin society that unfortunately is the reality.

God help us.
it's because we've been around the block a few times now and you learn to never assume anything but the worst when it comes to the people in our society.
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:58 PM   #823
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
Can you honestly say you hear this in the audio? Please give a link to the audio with a time (minutes/seconds) so that we can all judge...

I haven't heard this clearly yet.
Someone posted a link in this thread.
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Old 03-22-2012, 12:15 AM   #824
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So you don't like presumptions and then..................that?
I don't get where you think I don't like presumptions. I'm not on the jury, and just as superstitious behaviors by sports fans watching at home don't impact a game, our logical theories based on the news and idle speculation until we get more facts isn't going to impact a jury's need to obey the court's instructions.

I am just puzzled by scenarios that are presumed to be true (kid goes from running away, to stopping close to his house instead of going on to run inside, to inexplicably just cold-cock the guy and start beating his head in), which seem a lot less likely to be actually true than an alternate scenario (racist epithet-uttering wannabe cop weirdo wanting to make sure someone doesn't get away).
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Old 03-22-2012, 12:33 AM   #825
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That is the scenario I favor as most likely, at the moment anyway.

To be complete, other commonly-suggested, less-likely but not impossible scenarios include:

#2) Kid stops, Zimmerman yells at him something like "hey, what are you doing here? Do you live in this neighborhood?" Kid responds with a "none of your business, A-hole", punches him in the nose, Zimmerman goes down, kid follows up with the ground and pound before getting shot.

Given both backgrounds and the 911 tape, I have a lot of problem believing that one or similar theories, but if that is actually what happened, Zimmerman should walk.

#3) Zimmerman has his gun out, he's either brandishing or pointing his weapon, ordering the kid to stop and explain himself. Kid freaks, fight-or-flight kicks in, he attacks and dies.

I doubt that happened either since I don't think Zimmerman would have been involved in much of a fight, but if that is what happened, see scenario #1 above.
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