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Old 03-08-2012, 12:50 PM  
Bump Bump is offline
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Neighborhood watch captain shoots innocent black youth and doesn't even get arrested

http://news.yahoo.com/family-florida...044537742.html




ORLANDO, Florida (Reuters) - The family of a 17-year-old African-American boy shot to death last month in his gated Florida community by a white Neighborhood Watch captain wants to see the captain arrested, the family's lawyer said on Wednesday.

Trayvon Martin was shot dead after he took a break from watching NBA All-Star game television coverage to walk 10 minutes to a convenience store to buy snacks including Skittles candy requested by his 13-year-old brother, Chad, the family's lawyer Ben Crump said.

"He was a good kid," Crump said in an interview, adding that the family would issue a call for the Watch captain's arrest at a news conference on Thursday. "On his way home, a Neighborhood Watch loose cannon shot and killed him."

[Related: Fla. teen avoids deportation]

Trayvon, who lived in Miami with his mother, had been visiting his father and stepmother in a gated townhome community called The Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford, 20 miles north of Orlando.

As Trayvon returned to the townhome, Sanford police received a 911 call reporting a suspicious person.

Although names are blacked out on the police report, Crump and media reports at the time of the shooting identified the caller as George Zimmerman who is listed in the community's newsletter as the Neighborhood Watch captain.

Without waiting for police to arrive, Crump said, Zimmerman confronted Trayvon, who was on the sidewalk near his home. By the time police got there, Trayvon was dead of a single gunshot to the chest.

"What do the police find in his pocket? Skittles," Crump said. "A can of Arizona ice tea in his jacket pocket and Skittles in his front pocket for his brother Chad."

Zimmerman could not be reached for comment on Wednesday evening at a phone number listed for him on the community's newsletter.

Crump said the family was concerned that police might decide to consider the shooting as self defense, and that police have ignored the family's request for a copy of the original 911 call, which they think will shed light on the incidents.

"If the 911 protocol across the country held to form here, they told him not to get involved. He disobeyed that order," said Ryan Julison, a spokesman for the family.

"He (Zimmerman) didn't have to get out of his car," said Crump, who has prepared a public records lawsuit to file on Thursday if the family doesn't get the 911 tape. "If he never gets out of his car, there is no reason for self-defense. Trayvon only has skittles. He has the gun."

Since Trayvon, a high school junior who wanted to be a pilot, was black and Zimmerman is white, Crump said race is "the 600 pound elephant in the room."

"Why is this kid suspicious in the first place? I think a stereotype must have been placed on the kid," Crump said.

(Editing By Cynthia Johnston and Peter Bohan)

Last edited by Bump; 07-13-2013 at 12:19 AM..
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Old 03-25-2012, 03:40 PM   #1516
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Originally Posted by Messier View Post
Oh what do they want? They probably want their son back.
This right here is the problem.

This is causing all of the 'racism' attacks, the suspicion of the police, the presumption of Zimmerman's guilt, when she should be presumed innocent..everything.

The law doesn't have any provisions to provide for this yet, so I suggest getting a more realistic expectation of the outcome.
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Old 03-25-2012, 03:46 PM   #1517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
This right here is the problem.

This is causing all of the 'racism' attacks, the suspicion of the police, the presumption of Zimmerman's guilt, when she should be presumed innocent..everything.

The law doesn't have any provisions to provide for this yet, so I suggest getting a more realistic expectation of the outcome.
That police dept does have a history in regards to crime against blacks. This isn't the first time they've been on the radar.

That doesn't mean the race vultures aren't flocking to the scene as they always do, but there is some history.
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Old 03-25-2012, 03:55 PM   #1518
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Originally Posted by jspchief View Post
That police dept does have a history in regards to crime against blacks. This isn't the first time they've been on the radar.

That doesn't mean the race vultures aren't flocking to the scene as they always do, but there is some history.
No denying this, but the Chief is new (10 months) and I believe some of the other city officials were new, and had acknowledged the racial problems...not saying they were perfect, but new officials come in and acknowledge the problems generally means they were trying to work on shit...

The thing that bugs me , that will change after the grand jury is that so far we only hear perfect things about Tayvon from the media.....how he was a good student etc...When he was out on a 10-day suspension, possibly for something gang-related. I have heard he had gang related pictures all over his facebook. Not saying everyone in a hoodie is a gangbanger, but wearing a hoodie in a bad neighborhood (their neighborhood had had a shooting and 20+ break ins over the previous 12 months.....)..I mean where I live, if you are not in a gang, you do everything possible to look like you arent in a gang because it is the people who look like they are bangers who get jumped, drive by shot, confronted etc....generally people don't 'accidentally' dress up like thugs.

I'm not saying any of this means he deserved to get shot but if you start to look at all of the pieces (he was serving a ten day suspension, zimmermans nose broken, head bleeding, he was out late, wearing possibly gang style clothes, facebook had gang images in it, he was possibly 6 foot 3 inches tall) you begin to realize that it might not be as simple as the media and Al Sharpton would like you to think that it is.
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Old 03-25-2012, 03:58 PM   #1519
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
Well, there wasn't enough evidence (by law they could not arrest him) so there is now going to be a grand jury where both sides get to present evidence and a jury gets to make the decision whether or not he should stand trial.

What is so ****ing difficult to understand about that?
Some would argue there was enough probable cause to bring him in. When witnesses said they heard the kid screaming before the shots were fired.
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Old 03-25-2012, 04:00 PM   #1520
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Originally Posted by Just Passin' By View Post
Of course it is a better answer, since my response is what the law is. It's the group of you who've chosen to ignore that without offering a legitimate alternative that I'm trying to get to offer said alternative. If getting pummeled enough to end up on the ground with bloodied face and back of head isn't enough, what is? Is a broken jaw sufficient? How about the loss of an eye? Internal bleeding? Where's the cutoff between "got to take a beating" and "can finally act with extra force to preserve my life"? You all seem to think there's a cutoff point that's hard and fast, so let's have it.
OK, so let's put it this way: if YOU were on the jury, what criteria would YOU use?
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Old 03-25-2012, 04:01 PM   #1521
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Originally Posted by Chiefnj2 View Post
Some would argue there was enough probable cause to bring him in. When witnesses said they heard the kid screaming before the shots were fired.
Bringing him in does not mean arresting/holding him though. It just means getting his statement....if he walks out they would have to arrest him or let him go.

Witnesses did not say they heard 'the kid' screaming, in the initial report at least it was Zimmerman who was reported to be screaming. Even when they played the audio tape for Travon's father for the 1st time, he did not claim it was Trayvon screaming.
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Old 03-25-2012, 04:03 PM   #1522
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
Bringing him in does not mean arresting/holding him though.

Witnesses did not say they heard 'the kid' screaming, in the initial report at least it was Zimmerman who was reported to be screaming. Even when they played the audio tape for Travon's father for the 1st time, he did not claim it was Trayvon screaming.
Actually, at least one witness did say that. Police took it upon themselves to coerce that witness to change her mind.
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Old 03-25-2012, 04:05 PM   #1523
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OK, so let's put it this way: if YOU were on the jury, what criteria would YOU use?
No, let's not put it that way. Let's have some people who insist this wasn't enough to justify the action actually answer the question of what would be enough to justify the action.
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Old 03-25-2012, 04:05 PM   #1524
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
Bringing him in does not mean arresting/holding him though. It just means getting his statement....if he walks out they would have to arrest him or let him go.

Witnesses did not say they heard 'the kid' screaming, in the initial report at least it was Zimmerman who was reported to be screaming. Even when they played the audio tape for Travon's father for the 1st time, he did not claim it was Trayvon screaming.
This is false. Some thought it was Zimmerman, some thought it was Martin.
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Old 03-25-2012, 04:05 PM   #1525
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Originally Posted by Just Passin' By View Post
No, let's not put it that way. Let's have some people who insist this wasn't enough to justify the action actually answer the question of what would be enough to justify the action.
You keep asking for an answer, but you're not able to answer it yourself?
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Old 03-25-2012, 04:07 PM   #1526
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Originally Posted by DaFace View Post
OK, so let's put it this way: if YOU were on the jury, what criteria would YOU use?
If no exit was reasonable (i.e. Martin had Zimmerman on the ground) then deadly force can be used, it is pretty clear law.

It becomes much more murky if they were both standing when the shot was fired....

The fact that Zimmerman thought MArtin had something in his waist band may be helpful to Zimmerman's claims (he told 911 he thought he thought martin 'had something' )

Basically to be justified in using deadly force Zimmerman should be in fear of his life, and not being able to get away is a huge bonus.
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Old 03-25-2012, 04:08 PM
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Old 03-25-2012, 04:10 PM   #1527
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This is false. Some thought it was Zimmerman, some thought it was Martin.
Reasonable Doubt, especially if martin's own father wasn't sure. And, what I said was NOT false. The report said it was Zimmerman screaming. There was no witness who said 'I heard the kid' or 'trayvon' screaming. Lrn2Evidence
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Old 03-25-2012, 04:11 PM   #1528
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
If no exit was reasonable (i.e. Martin had Zimmerman on the ground) then deadly force can be used, it is pretty clear law.

It becomes much more murky if they were both standing when the shot was fired....

The fact that Zimmerman thought MArtin had something in his waist band may be helpful to Zimmerman's claims (he told 911 he thought he thought martin 'had something' )

Basically to be justified in using deadly force Zimmerman should be in fear of his life, and not being able to get away is a huge bonus.
Ignoring that Zimmerman chased down a fleeing Martin, I might come closer to agreeing.

I don't know how you can claim self defense after inserting yourself into the life threatening situation.
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Old 03-25-2012, 04:16 PM   #1529
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Ignoring that Zimmerman chased down a fleeing Martin, I might come closer to agreeing.

I don't know how you can claim self defense after inserting yourself into the life threatening situation.
This will be difficult to overcome I agree. BUT, lets say trayvon walked fast or was running away from the SUV while ZImmerman was calling 911. Zimmerman gets out of his car to look at the address to give to police, and was going to wait by his car. Zimmerman says hey what are you doing here, trayvon turns around and says 'why are you following me' and gets pissed and then he initiates the physicality...

I think it is a pretty big assumption to assume Zimmerman initiated the physical contact.....and I think it is the most critical factor in the entire case. Just as you seem to.

(Im going to substitute 'initiate physical contact' for 'chased down' but I think we are pretty much on the same page)
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Old 03-25-2012, 04:16 PM   #1530
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