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Old 03-08-2012, 11:50 AM  
Bump Bump is offline
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Neighborhood watch captain shoots innocent black youth and doesn't even get arrested

http://news.yahoo.com/family-florida...044537742.html




ORLANDO, Florida (Reuters) - The family of a 17-year-old African-American boy shot to death last month in his gated Florida community by a white Neighborhood Watch captain wants to see the captain arrested, the family's lawyer said on Wednesday.

Trayvon Martin was shot dead after he took a break from watching NBA All-Star game television coverage to walk 10 minutes to a convenience store to buy snacks including Skittles candy requested by his 13-year-old brother, Chad, the family's lawyer Ben Crump said.

"He was a good kid," Crump said in an interview, adding that the family would issue a call for the Watch captain's arrest at a news conference on Thursday. "On his way home, a Neighborhood Watch loose cannon shot and killed him."

[Related: Fla. teen avoids deportation]

Trayvon, who lived in Miami with his mother, had been visiting his father and stepmother in a gated townhome community called The Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford, 20 miles north of Orlando.

As Trayvon returned to the townhome, Sanford police received a 911 call reporting a suspicious person.

Although names are blacked out on the police report, Crump and media reports at the time of the shooting identified the caller as George Zimmerman who is listed in the community's newsletter as the Neighborhood Watch captain.

Without waiting for police to arrive, Crump said, Zimmerman confronted Trayvon, who was on the sidewalk near his home. By the time police got there, Trayvon was dead of a single gunshot to the chest.

"What do the police find in his pocket? Skittles," Crump said. "A can of Arizona ice tea in his jacket pocket and Skittles in his front pocket for his brother Chad."

Zimmerman could not be reached for comment on Wednesday evening at a phone number listed for him on the community's newsletter.

Crump said the family was concerned that police might decide to consider the shooting as self defense, and that police have ignored the family's request for a copy of the original 911 call, which they think will shed light on the incidents.

"If the 911 protocol across the country held to form here, they told him not to get involved. He disobeyed that order," said Ryan Julison, a spokesman for the family.

"He (Zimmerman) didn't have to get out of his car," said Crump, who has prepared a public records lawsuit to file on Thursday if the family doesn't get the 911 tape. "If he never gets out of his car, there is no reason for self-defense. Trayvon only has skittles. He has the gun."

Since Trayvon, a high school junior who wanted to be a pilot, was black and Zimmerman is white, Crump said race is "the 600 pound elephant in the room."

"Why is this kid suspicious in the first place? I think a stereotype must have been placed on the kid," Crump said.

(Editing By Cynthia Johnston and Peter Bohan)

Last edited by Bump; 07-12-2013 at 11:19 PM..
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Old 03-30-2012, 12:59 PM   #2206
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Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco View Post
Under Florida law he is allowed to use deadly force if his life is in danger. Which it sounds like it was according eye-witnesses..


It's the same in Colorado:

For example, about a 6 months ago I accidently cut this guy off on the road. He then gets around me on the left and wedges me over on the shoulder. He then proceeds to get out of his car with his tire iron with his girlfriend in the passenger seat. At this piont I feel like my life is threatened. So I pull out my 40 and tell the guy sorry for cutting him off, but if he took one more step with the tire iron, I was gonna empty my gun into his chest.

So he leaves at his girlfriends request and I called the police. The police said I was justified. I really see little differences from a 10,000 foot-view in this case.
I see a difference, but I don't know that it matters. What if instead of being run off the road, you did the running off the road. So you run the guys car to the side of the road, and then he gets out with the tire iron. Does that make a difference? Could he say he felt threatened? I'm really just asking. I don't know.
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Old 03-30-2012, 01:00 PM   #2207
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Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco View Post
I do doubt that Zimmerman went up to the kid and started waving a gun in his face or threatening him with physical violence. If he's doing neighborhood watch then anyone walking down the street late at night is a concern regardless of race, gender, color, or creed. Especially if it's something that's not normal.
Keep in mind that assault has a very broad interpretation. Even a shove is considered assault. What if he shoved him? What if he told him he wanted to kill him or even said he had a gun? Given Zimmerman's reputation its hard to believe he politely asked trayvon what he was up to. Very plausible that he approached in an aggressive manner, with gun or no gun. We don't know who initiated the fight.. We have no idea if the curb smashing story is true. But if trayvon did punch Zimmerman its very legit to ask if Zimmerman's actions warranted it. I think he fact that gz probably shouldn't have pursued trayvon in the first place opens up a whole can of worms about how an innocent kid is supposed to react to a strange man stalking him, and maybe very possibly aggressively.
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Old 03-30-2012, 01:00 PM   #2208
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Yes, but that doesn’t help you posts make a lick of sense.
that's because you leave out the important parts.
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Old 03-30-2012, 01:01 PM   #2209
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Originally Posted by Messier View Post
I see a difference, but I don't know that it matters. What if instead of being run off the road, you did the running off the road. So you run the guys car to the side of the road, and then he gets out with the tire iron. Does that make a difference? Could he say he felt threatened? I'm really just asking. I don't know.
You are still justified to shoot him if he initiates the assult


A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:

(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony
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Old 03-30-2012, 01:02 PM   #2210
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Originally Posted by chiefsfootballfan View Post
that's because you leave out the important parts.
Every response I’ve made to you I’ve quoted your entire post. WTF are you babbling about?
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Old 03-30-2012, 01:03 PM   #2211
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
K

Keep in mind that assault has a very broad interpretation. Even a shove is considered assault. What if he shoved him? What if he told him he wanted to kill him or even said he had a gun? Given Zimmerman's reputation its hard to believe he politely asked trayvon what he was up to. Very plausible that he approached in an aggressive manner, with gun or no gun. We don't know who initiated the fight.. We have no idea if the curb smashing story is true. But if trayvon did punch Zimmerman its very legit to ask if Zimmerman's actions warranted it. I think he fact that gz probably shouldn't have pursued trayvon in the first place opens up a whole can of worms about how an innocent kid is supposed to react to a strange man stalking him, and maybe very possibly aggressively.

Try going in front of a judge and tell him somebody shoved you and you shot him in self defense and tell me how broad the law is.
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Old 03-30-2012, 01:04 PM   #2212
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Originally Posted by Radar Chief View Post
Every response I’ve made to you I’ve quoted your entire post. WTF are you babbling about?
okay. lets do this.
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Old 03-30-2012, 01:05 PM   #2213
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Originally Posted by chiefsfootballfan View Post
semantics. when you get issued a citation, the DOJ has different marching orders according to the charges. Obviously, if you fight a speeding ticket, it's you against the officer, not a prosecutor.

in this case, the officer would file section code violations and yes, the prosecution has authority to drop it, change the charges etc.

the point I am driving at is, there should not be a catch22 in this. the police said they wanted to file base on what they witnessed. they didn't. that is unacceptable imo.
I think it's different for felonies.
when you say 'they wanted to file"....are you saying 'they' - the Cops - wanted the Prosecutor to file? Just want to make sure I'm not mis-reading anything etc.

but, I understand your point.
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Old 03-30-2012, 01:05 PM   #2214
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
We don't and that's fair to say we can't judge what we don't know. But I still view it from.... Some kid got shot and it should be Zimmermans burden of proof to prove it was self defense. It is outrageous that the police dropped charges given that there is significant reasonable doubt that Zimmerman didn't do this maliciously. He has to prove that he truly went to his car after being instructed to drop pursuit. That's suspect. I find that hard to believe.. Zimmerman has to prove that Martin assaulted him and if so, but that that wasn't self defense. If you saw a creepy guy chasing you doesn't martin have the right to stand his ground? And we have to do all that knowing full well that Zimmerman has a shady history that leads you to believe he has some anger issues.

So yeah, because the end result was an unarmed kid getting shot by a guy with very shady evidence to suggest martin initiated a fight that warranted guns for self defense, I'm starting with the idea that Zimmerman is guilty until proven innocent.
First of all, Zimmerman and the witness statements that have been collected may well have carried the burden of establishing legitimate self defense as far as the state prosecutor was concerned. Just because you don't feel satisfied as you witness the incident through the distortions of whatever news feed you use doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

Second, it's possible for both of these men to have been acting in self defense within the parameters of the stand your ground law. Martin doesn't have to have mounted a completely unprovoked attack against Zimmerman for Zimmerman's defense to be valid.

You're jumping to a lot of conclusions here. That's what we call prejudice.
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Old 03-30-2012, 01:07 PM   #2215
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Originally Posted by chiefsfootballfan View Post
okay. lets do this.
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Old 03-30-2012, 01:08 PM   #2216
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Originally Posted by chiefsfootballfan View Post
well, if an officer files them, they are in fact charges. damn dude, you need t o be spoonfed every bite.

That is wrong.


1) Police or Sheriff files a report which is passed to prosecutor.

2) Prosecutor determines what if any charges should be filed by the state.

3)For felony charges, a Preliminary Hearing is held in which a judge determines if there is sufficient evidence to probable cause to bind the defendant over for trial. (In some jurisdictions that determination is made by a Grand Jury).

4) At trial a jury or judge (defendant's choice in most jurisdictions) makes a determination of fact as to guilt or innocence.

5) Upon a finding of guilt, the judge determines the sentence (death sentence cases often require a secondary jury finding that the death sentence is warranted).
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Old 03-30-2012, 01:08 PM   #2217
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You are still justified to shoot him if he initiates the assult


A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:

(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony
Alright. So does it work both ways? Could the guy in the other car have felt his life was in danger, and needed to protect himself if he was the one that was run off the road?

Could the kid have felt his life was in danger? Not arguing, I really don't know.
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Old 03-30-2012, 01:10 PM   #2218
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Originally Posted by Messier View Post
Alright. So does it work both ways? Could the guy in the other car have felt his life was in danger, and needed to protect himself if he was the one that was run off the road?

Could the kid have felt his life was in danger? Not arguing, I really don't know.
Not if he was the one who came out with the weapon man.. He provoked the attack.
You cannot shoot someone for running you off the road unless they are slamming into your car movie style trying to kill you I guess.

You can only defend yourself or others from serious injury or imminent death, you cannot be the aggressor
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Old 03-30-2012, 01:11 PM   #2219
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
K

Even a shove is considered assault.

No, it's battery.
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Old 03-30-2012, 01:18 PM   #2220
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you guys kill me. let's construct some reasonable circumstance in this case;

1) NW dude is wearing a sidearm in plain view and dressed in pants and shirt, fully exposing sidearm.

2) NW dude is wearing a sidearm in plain view and dressed in pants and shirt, fully exposing sidearm.

3) NW dude is wearing a sidearm in plain view and dressed in pants and shirt, fully exposing sidearm.

4) Zimmerman is a jewish name

5) GZ did not explain in any way the suspect tried to grab the obviously visible weapon, which would normally be the right move by a cold blooded killer.

6) the police wanted to, but did not file charges, prompting public outrage.

7) public outrage was slammed by internet whiners who love seeing ppl suffer but won't fess up to this fetish.

8) half the men in this forum are wearing women's clothing while they surf DC



there. fell free to att... add on
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