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Old 03-08-2012, 12:50 PM  
Bump Bump is offline
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Neighborhood watch captain shoots innocent black youth and doesn't even get arrested

http://news.yahoo.com/family-florida...044537742.html




ORLANDO, Florida (Reuters) - The family of a 17-year-old African-American boy shot to death last month in his gated Florida community by a white Neighborhood Watch captain wants to see the captain arrested, the family's lawyer said on Wednesday.

Trayvon Martin was shot dead after he took a break from watching NBA All-Star game television coverage to walk 10 minutes to a convenience store to buy snacks including Skittles candy requested by his 13-year-old brother, Chad, the family's lawyer Ben Crump said.

"He was a good kid," Crump said in an interview, adding that the family would issue a call for the Watch captain's arrest at a news conference on Thursday. "On his way home, a Neighborhood Watch loose cannon shot and killed him."

[Related: Fla. teen avoids deportation]

Trayvon, who lived in Miami with his mother, had been visiting his father and stepmother in a gated townhome community called The Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford, 20 miles north of Orlando.

As Trayvon returned to the townhome, Sanford police received a 911 call reporting a suspicious person.

Although names are blacked out on the police report, Crump and media reports at the time of the shooting identified the caller as George Zimmerman who is listed in the community's newsletter as the Neighborhood Watch captain.

Without waiting for police to arrive, Crump said, Zimmerman confronted Trayvon, who was on the sidewalk near his home. By the time police got there, Trayvon was dead of a single gunshot to the chest.

"What do the police find in his pocket? Skittles," Crump said. "A can of Arizona ice tea in his jacket pocket and Skittles in his front pocket for his brother Chad."

Zimmerman could not be reached for comment on Wednesday evening at a phone number listed for him on the community's newsletter.

Crump said the family was concerned that police might decide to consider the shooting as self defense, and that police have ignored the family's request for a copy of the original 911 call, which they think will shed light on the incidents.

"If the 911 protocol across the country held to form here, they told him not to get involved. He disobeyed that order," said Ryan Julison, a spokesman for the family.

"He (Zimmerman) didn't have to get out of his car," said Crump, who has prepared a public records lawsuit to file on Thursday if the family doesn't get the 911 tape. "If he never gets out of his car, there is no reason for self-defense. Trayvon only has skittles. He has the gun."

Since Trayvon, a high school junior who wanted to be a pilot, was black and Zimmerman is white, Crump said race is "the 600 pound elephant in the room."

"Why is this kid suspicious in the first place? I think a stereotype must have been placed on the kid," Crump said.

(Editing By Cynthia Johnston and Peter Bohan)

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Old 03-30-2012, 04:25 PM   #2251
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The country needs more Hispanic vigilantes with Jewish surnames. El Batmanstein!
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Old 03-30-2012, 04:28 PM   #2252
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Has anybody heard exactly where the gunshot wound was at? I know it was in his chest, Just wondering the exact spot
Nope. Currently the autoposy report is sealed
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Old 03-30-2012, 04:32 PM   #2253
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Originally Posted by Chiefnj2 View Post
The country needs more Hispanic vigilantes with Jewish surnames. El Batmanstein!
This country needs more bedwetting moonbats
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Old 03-30-2012, 04:33 PM   #2254
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
Nope. Currently the autoposy report is sealed
Thanks.....
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Old 03-30-2012, 04:35 PM   #2255
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The country needs more Hispanic vigilantes with Jewish surnames. El Batmanstein!
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Old 03-30-2012, 04:42 PM   #2256
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Originally Posted by R8ers View Post
And if Martin had not decided to take the law into his own hands and assault GZ he would be alive today..

You can't justify some mall cop following you around as a reason to commit felony assault.. The is just no way to spin this part
Like I said... You are making a bold assumption that all he did was follow him. How do you know Zimmerman didn't aggressively provoke? Throw the first shove or punch? Sprint after Martin?

What I know is that Zimmerman was not a cop. And given that Martin is unarmed and yet Zimmerman profiles him as suspicious it hangs together that Zimmerman provoked the situation when he shouldn't have. While your point is true, you ALSO can't blindly enforce vigilante justice, ESPECIALLY if you are carrying a gun. When you carry a gun you have an additional responsibility to be careful about provoking a situation where you may need to use it.
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Old 03-30-2012, 04:47 PM   #2257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
Like I said... You are making a bold assumption that all he did was follow him. How do you know Zimmerman didn't aggressively provoke? Throw the first shove or punch? Sprint after Martin?

What I know is that Zimmerman was not a cop. And given that Martin is unarmed and yet Zimmerman profiles him as suspicious it hangs together that Zimmerman provoked the situation when he shouldn't have. While your point is true, you ALSO can't blindly enforce vigilante justice, ESPECIALLY if you are carrying a gun. When you carry a gun you have an additional responsibility to be careful about provoking a situation where you may need to use it.
Does not matter... It does not justify felony assault... If a security guard at the mall is following you and you don't like it at the mall is it ok to break his nose, dive on him and beat his head into the floor?

A security guard is no more of a cop than a Neighborhood watch man is

Vigilante Justice is not shooting someone who is on top of you pounding your head into the sidewalk... Vigilante Justice would have been him shooting at him 50 yards away.
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Old 03-30-2012, 05:04 PM   #2258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
y

If you are a teenager with an older bigger man pursuing you, wouldn't you feel worried about your safety? So the law doesn't cover stalking?
And that's exactly where Zimmerman's supporters lose credibility in the consistency on their stance. And evidently they fail to recognize it, or just simply don't want to. Or maybe they are just dumb enough to think that to be able to stand your ground you must use a firearm in the course of doing so.

Fact of the matter Martin had every right himself to "stand his ground" as well.

Martin was not committing any crime. He was being watched by an unknown male under the cover of darkness for unknown reasons to him. This unknown male, to Martin, then started following him. He expressed concern about his safety to his GF about this unknown adult male following him. He tried to flee. Unknown male continued to follow. We know for a fact that he was on the phone with his GF through phone records. It was Zimmerman that instigated the altercation by not following his direct intermediary to law enforcement request to not follow Martin. At that point the culpability of the outcome lies with Zimmerman as he has started to not listen to emergency services request and begun to take matters into his own hands.

Add in the fact that in shootings the most likely person to lie, or even in some cases change their story to be the most resemble the victim actions is the shooter. Zimmerman has the most incentive to lie in this case.
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Old 03-30-2012, 05:06 PM   #2259
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How do Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman compare in terms of body size?

There is some inconsistency in reports of Martin and Zimmerman's height and weight. In the original police report, Martin is described as being 6' tall and weighing 160 pounds. But his family told CBS News that he was 6' 2" and between 140-150 pounds. Zimmerman is described in the police report as standing 5' 9" tall, with no weight listed. In a 2005 police report, Zimmerman's ex-fiance describes him as 5' 7" and according to the Miami Herald he weighs about 200 pounds
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Old 03-30-2012, 05:06 PM   #2260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R8ers View Post
Does not matter... It does not justify felony assault... If a security guard at the mall is following you and you don't like it at the mall is it ok to break his nose, dive on him and beat his head into the floor?

A security guard is no more of a cop than a Neighborhood watch man is

Vigilante Justice is not shooting someone who is on top of you pounding your head into the sidewalk... Vigilante Justice would have been him shooting at him 50 yards away.
The difference in your example is that a security guard would likely be in an identifiable uniform. And the security guard would probably taze you instead of shooting you.
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Old 03-30-2012, 05:07 PM   #2261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R8ers View Post
Does not matter... It does not justify felony assault... If a security guard at the mall is following you and you don't like it at the mall is it ok to break his nose, dive on him and beat his head into the floor?

A security guard is no more of a cop than a Neighborhood watch man is

Vigilante Justice is not shooting someone who is on top of you pounding your head into the sidewalk... Vigilante Justice would have been him shooting at him 50 yards away.
I said it didn't justify felony assault unless trayvon was significantly provoked. And let's not rule that out by the way. Or unless trayvon didn't make the first move... Let's not rule that out either.

Again, I am not talking about Zimmerman doing his watch duty. I am talking about whether he abused his powers and proactively provoked a fight he had no business provoking. You are making a bold assumption that trayvon assaulted Zimmerman only because he was following him. But what we know is... Zimmerman was carrying a firearm, he has a histor of anger issues, his 911 call indicates he was pissed, and it also hints that Zimmerman wasn't ready to give up pursuit. There are a ton of ways that hangs into a story of Zimmerman provoking a situation in an absolutely wrong way and in a way that was way beyond the scope of his powers. As I said before, if he carries a firearm, he has additional responsibility not to provoke a situation.

It reminds me of my frat buddy in college. Talked shit to everyone. Loved getting into fights. Most of the time he wasn't the first guy throwing the punch but we all knew he was really the guy who started it and we know he deserved to get punched. I'm not saying Zimmerman deserved to get assault, but it's certainly worth asking... Did he do something where, if you were his friend and you saw it happen, you would say... "yeah... Given what you did, I'd probably punch you too."
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Old 03-30-2012, 05:08 PM   #2262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiveturkey View Post
The difference in your example is that a security guard would likely be in an identifiable uniform. And the security guard would probably taze you instead of shooting you.
He had the legal right to carry his weapon
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Old 03-30-2012, 05:09 PM   #2263
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Originally Posted by R8ers View Post
He had the legal right to carry his weapon
I'm not saying that he didn't.

The legal question becomes.... Did he have a legal right to pursue someone?
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Old 03-30-2012, 05:09 PM   #2264
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I said it didn't justify felony assault unless trayvon was significantly provoked. And let's not rule that out by the way. Or unless trayvon didn't make the first move... Let's not rule that out either.

Again, I am not talking about Zimmerman doing his watch duty. I am talking about whether he abused his powers and proactively provoked a fight he had no business provoking. You are making a bold assumption that trayvon assaulted Zimmerman only because he was following him. But what we know is... Zimmerman was carrying a firearm, he has a histor of anger issues, his 911 call indicates he was pissed, and it also hints that Zimmerman wasn't ready to give up pursuit. There are a ton of ways that hangs into a story of Zimmerman provoking a situation in an absolutely wrong way and in a way that was way beyond the scope of his powers. As I said before, if he carries a firearm, he has additional responsibility not to provoke a situation.

It reminds me of my frat buddy in college. Talked shit to everyone. Loved getting into fights. Most of the time he wasn't the first guy throwing the punch but we all knew he was really the guy who started it and we know he deserved to get punched. I'm not saying Zimmerman deserved to get assault, but it's certainly worth asking... Did he do something where, if you were his friend and you saw it happen, you would say... "yeah... Given what you did, I'd probably punch you too."

Had George Zimmerman or Trayvon Martin ever been in trouble with the law?

On Monday, Florida authorities told the Associated Press that Martin had no juvenile record, and his uncle Ronald Fulton told Crimesider that the teen had never been arrested. According to the Miami Herald, Martin was investigated in October after a school police officer found women's jewelry in his backpack, but the jewelry reportedly did not match any that had been reported stolen. At the time of his death, Martin was serving a school suspension after police there found a plastic bag with traces of marijuana in his backpack, reports the Miami Herald.

George Zimmerman was arrested in July 2005 on charges of felony resisting arrest with violence and battery on a police officer. The charges were reduced to a single misdemeanor and eventually dropped.

A month later, Zimmerman's ex-fiancee filed a temporary order of protection against him, and he counter-filed against her. The court granted both orders. As part of the order, Zimmerman was prohibited from having a firearm or ammunition. The order was lifted in August 2006.
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Old 03-30-2012, 05:21 PM   #2265
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Originally Posted by R8ers View Post
Had George Zimmerman or Trayvon Martin ever been in trouble with the law?

On Monday, Florida authorities told the Associated Press that Martin had no juvenile record, and his uncle Ronald Fulton told Crimesider that the teen had never been arrested. According to the Miami Herald, Martin was investigated in October after a school police officer found women's jewelry in his backpack, but the jewelry reportedly did not match any that had been reported stolen. At the time of his death, Martin was serving a school suspension after police there found a plastic bag with traces of marijuana in his backpack, reports the Miami Herald.

George Zimmerman was arrested in July 2005 on charges of felony resisting arrest with violence and battery on a police officer. The charges were reduced to a single misdemeanor and eventually dropped.

A month later, Zimmerman's ex-fiancee filed a temporary order of protection against him, and he counter-filed against her. The court granted both orders. As part of the order, Zimmerman was prohibited from having a firearm or ammunition. The order was lifted in August 2006.
This tells you a few things. Yeah, Trayvan isn't the saint he's painted to be.

But in terms of Zimmerman, it shows he sure seems to have aggressive tendencies. We all know these types of people. It's not like they accidentally fall into these situations. They either provoke them or they overreact to them in ways other people would not.

But the bigger question for me is... given this track record, why would he be appointed to be on Neighborhood Watch? That scares the shit out of me that a guy with these kinds of tendencies would be asked to watch over my neighborhood, let alone carry a firearm.
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