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Old 03-08-2012, 12:50 PM  
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Neighborhood watch captain shoots innocent black youth and doesn't even get arrested

http://news.yahoo.com/family-florida...044537742.html




ORLANDO, Florida (Reuters) - The family of a 17-year-old African-American boy shot to death last month in his gated Florida community by a white Neighborhood Watch captain wants to see the captain arrested, the family's lawyer said on Wednesday.

Trayvon Martin was shot dead after he took a break from watching NBA All-Star game television coverage to walk 10 minutes to a convenience store to buy snacks including Skittles candy requested by his 13-year-old brother, Chad, the family's lawyer Ben Crump said.

"He was a good kid," Crump said in an interview, adding that the family would issue a call for the Watch captain's arrest at a news conference on Thursday. "On his way home, a Neighborhood Watch loose cannon shot and killed him."

[Related: Fla. teen avoids deportation]

Trayvon, who lived in Miami with his mother, had been visiting his father and stepmother in a gated townhome community called The Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford, 20 miles north of Orlando.

As Trayvon returned to the townhome, Sanford police received a 911 call reporting a suspicious person.

Although names are blacked out on the police report, Crump and media reports at the time of the shooting identified the caller as George Zimmerman who is listed in the community's newsletter as the Neighborhood Watch captain.

Without waiting for police to arrive, Crump said, Zimmerman confronted Trayvon, who was on the sidewalk near his home. By the time police got there, Trayvon was dead of a single gunshot to the chest.

"What do the police find in his pocket? Skittles," Crump said. "A can of Arizona ice tea in his jacket pocket and Skittles in his front pocket for his brother Chad."

Zimmerman could not be reached for comment on Wednesday evening at a phone number listed for him on the community's newsletter.

Crump said the family was concerned that police might decide to consider the shooting as self defense, and that police have ignored the family's request for a copy of the original 911 call, which they think will shed light on the incidents.

"If the 911 protocol across the country held to form here, they told him not to get involved. He disobeyed that order," said Ryan Julison, a spokesman for the family.

"He (Zimmerman) didn't have to get out of his car," said Crump, who has prepared a public records lawsuit to file on Thursday if the family doesn't get the 911 tape. "If he never gets out of his car, there is no reason for self-defense. Trayvon only has skittles. He has the gun."

Since Trayvon, a high school junior who wanted to be a pilot, was black and Zimmerman is white, Crump said race is "the 600 pound elephant in the room."

"Why is this kid suspicious in the first place? I think a stereotype must have been placed on the kid," Crump said.

(Editing By Cynthia Johnston and Peter Bohan)

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Old 04-22-2012, 04:40 PM   #3136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R8ers View Post
Here is how I think it went down...

I don't think GZ or many people for that matter would have the balls to approach a 6 ft 3 dude in the dark with a hoodie. He could have been armed too. I think he followed him slowly in the car at first, and that annoyed TM, I think TM figured he would cut thru the apt's to get away, I think GZ got out and walked a little to see where he had gone and decided he had lost him and turned around to go back to his vehicle, I think TM thought about it, and felt he was looking like a punk for running from this guy so he doubled back and met GZ somewhere close to his vehicle, he asked GZ did he have a problem, a startled GZ said no, and TM said you do now and punched him in the face and jumped on him. Then the rage got the better of him, maybe he had been told all of his life that all people not of his race were bad people who knows but this kid went into a rage, slamming GZ's head atleast 3 times into the concrete, GZ then determined he would have to defend himself or possibly die.
This is a guy who was in security and wanted to be a cop, not to mention a guy who multiple times has instigated a confrontation (was alleged to have followed suspicious persons in the past all the way to their homes, in addition to other documented confrontations). His pattern of behavior makes it very, very hard to believe that he was passively tracking or afraid of Trayvon. His history suggests that he loves a confrontation and has a record of overzealously stalking suspicious persons. Especially given his comment about "****ing punks, they always get away." That sure sounds to me like a guy who is pissed and wants to do something about it.

My interpretation is that Zimmerman is a well-meaning guy who started patrolling his neighborhood and became involved with Neighborhood Watch because he badly, badly wanted to be a hero. If he wasn't going to be a cop, he was going to at least help people on his own. Who knows, maybe if he cracked the case of the burglars in his community, the cops might add him to the force. So I don't buy the bullshit story that he was going to the grocery store. I think that for weeks, he was probably constantly staking out his neighborhood, waiting for some suspicious character to do something stupid. Maybe to the point of obsession (this is backed up by the volume of and nature of calls he made to 911). When he saw Trayvon run, I think he was convinced he had finally found one. Eager to please his community and be a hero, he went after Trayvon.

From there, you can imagine a whole bunch of scenarios for how an overzealous vigilante with a confrontational track record might have handled himself when confronted with a guy he was convinced was guilty of something. Maybe he mentioned he was packing heat, maybe he tried to restrain Trayvon to hold him until the cops got there, maybe he told him to hold still or he'd arrest or shoot him. Who knows. Like many people said, I highly doubt EITHER of the two handled themselves well in that situation. But I find it very, very hard to believe he asked a simple question and was assaulted, and that's the extent of it.
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Old 04-22-2012, 04:41 PM   #3137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
Like I said, it's hard to justify the over-reaction on Trayvon's part.

I don't think we'll be able to legally prove what happened, unless somehow we do have phone records that have not yet been released. But if I'm making an educated guess, yes, the facts lead me to the OPINION that Zimmerman provoked Trayvon confrontationally, based on Zimmerman's state of mind and history of provoking confrontations and reacting violently when pushed.

Yes, I think there are plenty of plausible scenarios... that he threatened Trayvon. That he grabbed Trayvon or shoved him. That maybe he walked up to Trayvon calmly, Zimmerman reacted, and Trayvon defended himself in the heat of the moment. Again, these are all assumptions, but there are just as many scenarios that say Trayvon did it for no good reason as there are that he was reasonably provoked.

Had that been the case he would have never been able to get a CCW, GZ got into a tussle with undercover cops that did not identify themselves, the charges when from a felony to a misdemeanor to dropped, I think he took an anger management class to get it all dropped probably on the advice of his attorney.
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Old 04-22-2012, 04:41 PM   #3138
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Originally Posted by mikey23545 View Post
Well then, it's obvious we should send Zimmerman to prison for the rest of his life based on your assumptions.
I've said a million times that I don't think the prosecution has much of a case. I think the best they can do is charges of negligence in violating his trained duties as a neighborhood watch volunteer.
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Old 04-22-2012, 04:47 PM   #3139
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Originally Posted by R8ers View Post
The teen was suspended from school three times
He was on suspension when he was shot in February, after officials caught him with a 'marijuana pipe' and a baggie with drug residue
Trayvon was kicked out of school in October for graffiti after he was allegedly caught with a 'burglary tool' and a bag full of women's jewelry
Officials also suspended him once for skipping school and tardiness


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1so6J1967

That's all I have read
There's not much to suggest a violent background. Not saying it didn't happen the way Zimmerman says, just strange Martin picked that night and that person to commit his first murder.
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Old 04-22-2012, 04:48 PM   #3140
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Originally Posted by R8ers View Post
Had that been the case he would have never been able to get a CCW, GZ got into a tussle with undercover cops that did not identify themselves, the charges when from a felony to a misdemeanor to dropped, I think he took an anger management class to get it all dropped probably on the advice of his attorney.
Where there's smoke there's fire. Here's what I remember (some of this may be off... I'm trying to recall from memory... Apologize if anything is wrong).

On the cop incident, we have to be careful to say that the charges were dropped, as he still had to serve "time." It's alleged that he was fired from his security job because he threw a woman across the room he believed to be drunk. He had a joint domestic violence dispute. At a previous condo meeting, a black man was complaining that Zimmerman stalked him all the way to his house. I believe there was a 911 call on the record where Zimmerman confronted a guy who was trying to collect money, or something of that nature.

We all know guys like this. They're not unlucky that violent situations just happen, they tend to provoke these violent situations. Where there's smoke, there's fire. I think this is a guy with a very short temper and who loves a good confrontation.
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Old 04-22-2012, 04:51 PM   #3141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R8ers View Post
The teen was suspended from school three times
He was on suspension when he was shot in February, after officials caught him with a 'marijuana pipe' and a baggie with drug residue
Trayvon was kicked out of school in October for graffiti after he was allegedly caught with a 'burglary tool' and a bag full of women's jewelry
Officials also suspended him once for skipping school and tardiness


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1so6J1967

That's all I have read
Regardless of his past track record, he was not on drugs and he did not have a weapon. He did not have any burglary tool or anything he could have used to break into a house. And based on his path, he has a very credible alibi that he was walking directly from 7-11.

Regardless of his past track record, it's going to be difficult to build a case that he was doing anything wrong on that particular night.
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Old 04-22-2012, 04:52 PM   #3142
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GZ would have been an idiot to commit murder there if that was his intention... Too many possible eyewitnesses ...

Had he wanted to kill Trayvon, why didn't he just shoot him from the window of his car? Just don't add up man.
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Old 04-22-2012, 05:01 PM   #3143
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from hannity's site;

"Defense attorney Woodland discussed what possible strategy the defense team might take. "You are going to have competing forensic experts, but you know what? Zimmerman has an excuse to second-degree murder in Florida which is sudden combat. If the defense can prove sudden combat then that will absolutely make the jury declare a not guilty." Sudden combat, according to Florida law states that the killing of a human being is excusable, and therefore lawful, if "the killing is committed by accident and misfortune resulting from a sudden combat, if a dangerous weapon is not used and the killing is not done in a cruel or unusual manner."
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Old 04-22-2012, 05:16 PM   #3144
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Originally Posted by R8ers View Post
GZ would have been an idiot to commit murder there if that was his intention... Too many possible eyewitnesses ...

Had he wanted to kill Trayvon, why didn't he just shoot him from the window of his car? Just don't add up man.
I find it very, very, very hard to believe Zimmerman walked into the confrontation with the intent to murder. I do believe he was acting in self defense and have no problem with the actual shooting.

But it's also very believable that he intended to confront Trayvon and, who knows, possibly restrain him (with force if necessary) until the cops got there. Again, lots of stories that can hang together about Zimmerman provoking a confrontation that never needed to happen.

That 1-2 minutes of radio silence is unfortunately the most critical. Neither side knows what happens, whether that's Trayvon's side or Zimmerman's side. I'm just forming my opinion based on what we know about the guy.
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Old 04-22-2012, 05:40 PM   #3145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
I find it very, very, very hard to believe Zimmerman walked into the confrontation with the intent to murder. I do believe he was acting in self defense and have no problem with the actual shooting.

But it's also very believable that he intended to confront Trayvon and, who knows, possibly restrain him (with force if necessary) until the cops got there. Again, lots of stories that can hang together about Zimmerman provoking a confrontation that never needed to happen.

That 1-2 minutes of radio silence is unfortunately the most critical. Neither side knows what happens, whether that's Trayvon's side or Zimmerman's side. I'm just forming my opinion based on what we know about the guy.
I can't see that scenario, Man was taller than he was, had a hoodie on and it was dark. I just don't know many people who are that brave man.

I would not come up to ANYONE out of the blue with or without a gun in the middle of the night.


Just can't grasp that scenario
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Old 04-22-2012, 06:00 PM   #3146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R8ers View Post
I can't see that scenario, Man was taller than he was, had a hoodie on and it was dark. I just don't know many people who are that brave man.

I would not come up to ANYONE out of the blue with or without a gun in the middle of the night.


Just can't grasp that scenario
would you approach a stranger after leaving your car and allow him to get close enough to punch you while CCW without first drawing? that's what GZ claims.
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Old 04-22-2012, 06:19 PM   #3147
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Originally Posted by R8ers View Post
I can't see that scenario, Man was taller than he was, had a hoodie on and it was dark. I just don't know many people who are that brave man.

I would not come up to ANYONE out of the blue with or without a gun in the middle of the night.


Just can't grasp that scenario
And yet, even though he thought Trayvon was up to no good, was on drugs, and was tall and big, he still left the car and was pursuing Trayvon. That's not in dispute. If Zimmerman had any fear whatsoever, he would have stayed in his car and waited for the police to arrive. Again, this is a guy who was trained to know that the minute he started pursuing any suspicious person, he was putting himself in danger of confrontation. His training was VERY clear that he was not to do anything beyond call the police.

Secondly, let me again point you to his track record:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1340358.html
Quote:
At an emergency homeowner’s association meeting on March 1, “one man was escorted out because he openly expressed his frustration because he had previously contacted the Sanford Police Department about Zimmerman approaching him and even coming to his home,” the resident wrote in an email to HuffPost. “It was also made known that there had been several complaints about George Zimmerman and his tactics" in his neighborhood watch captain role.
This is a guy who wanted to be a cop. This is a guy who volunteered to patrol and took his job ultra-seriously. This is a guy who used to work in security. This is a guy who has had multiple confrontations in the past. You don't think that a guy like this, who obviously seems to invite confrontation, didn't walk up to Trayvon with the bravado, especially knowing he had a gun to back him up if he failed?
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Old 04-22-2012, 06:25 PM   #3148
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This is a guy that I bet had Daddy clean up a lot of his messes.
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Old 04-22-2012, 06:44 PM   #3149
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Originally Posted by UCF Knight View Post
Getting out of his car is action enough.... Zimmerman isn't a cop and should have stayed his ass in his car.
I don't think so. I try to put myself in that situation in my neighborhood. If there have been breakins in my neighborhood and I call the cops I can see myself following the suspect so I can lead cops to him when they get hear rather then letting my disappear. Especially if I know I have a gun and the guy attacks me I can cap his ass.
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Old 04-22-2012, 07:10 PM   #3150
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Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy View Post
I don't think so. I try to put myself in that situation in my neighborhood. If there have been breakins in my neighborhood and I call the cops I can see myself following the suspect so I can lead cops to him when they get hear rather then letting my disappear. Especially if I know I have a gun and the guy attacks me I can cap his ass.

hey gunsmoke, robberies occur at night while ppl are at home and burglaries occur during the day.

these are two different type criminals. but then, why am I even taking the time to correct an idiot.
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