****The official NEW new conference realignment thread.****

[Saul Good]

the second thread has been pronounced dead.

[Mr. Plow]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

Manhattan < Ames <<< Columbia < Lawrence

I really don't care of the order. I've been to Manhattan. I've been to Columbia. I've been to Lawrence. Never to Ames. All are fine cities in their own regards.

[Mr. Plow]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

I would agree. Florida to Columbia MO is not a very compelling trip for fans. Ames to Columbia is a fun road trip because it's an easy drive.

Road trips are always fun. Especially when you mix a football game into it.

[Bambi]

Originally Posted by alnorth

Kinda funny how every time there's a wild rumor in the Big 12, a lot of people are hasty to jump in and proclaim it to be proof that OU and UT rule the conference. Even when a wild-assed rumor, if true, would HURT those two schools, no time to analyze, it must be favorable to them.

I think some coaches and AD's might be getting overly emotional about the round-robin, not considering all the ramifications of going to 12, and Snyder's senile mind may have picked up on it.

There's no way the Big 12 is divisionless at 12, the NCAA wont allow a championship game, and it would screw the stronger schools (OU, UT, to a lesser extent TT and OSU as well) who have to have permanent rivalry games with each other.

A school like K-State would love this plan, every 4 or 5 years or so, they'd randomly avoid playing both of them. KU made it to the orange bowl partly because they avoided playing both UT and OU, they'd love to see that happen again. (at least with divisions, doing that might only get you a division title and you still have to play a CCG before winning the conference)

THE TINY BIG 12 SCHOOLS NEVER WIN ANYTHING! THEY ARE GETTING TRAMPLED!

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by alnorth

Your priorities are a little weird. You fly to save time and hassle, not because the big city airport is cool.

If its worth driving to a big city, then it is not worth flying there. (where "worth" also includes time, hassle, and effort, however you monetarily value that sort of thing for yourself) If its worth driving to a small city, it is not worth flying there. If the drive is not worth it, then the flight might be worth it depending on the time you save.

The cost difference really isn't much, you are renting a room either way. The reason to choose the flight is "oh God, I'm not driving that", not "oh cool, Boston!". If you want to go to Boston and you are only 2 hours away, you'll be driving there, not flying. If you aren't excited about Manhattan even with the game and you only live 2 hours away, you aren't driving or flying there.

I don't understand why you can't seem to wrap your mind around this simple concept.

Five college football fans want to go to a road game.

"Hey guys. We play teams "A", "B", "C", and "D" on the road. Team A is a four hour drive and is in a really nice town with tons to do. Team B is in kind of a run of the mill college town and is also a four hour drive. Team C is in a great city, but we would have to fly there. Team D is in a run of the mill town, and we would have to fly there."

You're going to choose A every time because it's an ready road trip, and there will be plenty to do besides the game.

Short of that, you either go with B because it's an easy road trip, and road trips are fun, or you go with C because you're willing to spend more money to see a game somewhere cool because the experience is worth the extra expense.

The only terrible option is D. You have to pay for for a plane ticket and deal with the hassle just to go to a mediocre town.

For Florida State, every trip in their division would be option D except Clemson (which has been in their conference for years).

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

Manhattan < Ames <<< Columbia < Lawrence

I like Columbia more than Lawrence, but they're pretty comparable. Other than that, I agree. Stillwater ****ing sucks, btw.

[Reaper16]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

I like Columbia more than Lawrence, but they're pretty comparable. Other than that, I agree. Stillwater ****ing sucks, btw.

I only put Lawrence ahead of Columbia because Lawrence gets better concerts and has the excellent Free State Brewpub.

[alnorth]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

I don't understand why you can't seem to wrap your mind around this simple concept.

Five college football fans want to go to a road game.

"Hey guys. We play teams "A", "B", "C", and "D" on the road. Team A is a four hour drive and is in a really nice town with tons to do. Team B is in kind of a run of the mill college town and is also a four hour drive. Team C is in a great city, but we would have to fly there. Team D is in a run of the mill town, and we would have to fly there."

You're going to choose A every time because it's an ready road trip, and there will be plenty to do besides the game.

Short of that, you either go with B because it's an easy road trip, and road trips are fun, or you go with C because you're willing to spend more money to see a game somewhere cool because the experience is worth the extra expense.

The only terrible option is D. You have to pay for for a plane ticket and deal with the hassle just to go to a mediocre town.

For Florida State, every trip in their division would be option D except Clemson (which has been in their conference for years).

OK, now lets stipulate that there are no 4-hour division drives for FSU, anywhere.

EVERY division game (ignoring Clemson) is either type C or D, and NC isn't as cool as you make it out to be. The downside of Boston is seeing the worst team this side of Duke, which should come close to cancelling it out, I mean, we're not talking about a beach or NYC, its just Boston.

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by Mr. Plow

Road trips are always fun. Especially when you mix a football game into it.

Sure, but Tallahassee to Lawrence is a 2000 mile round trip. You aren't doing that on Friday after class and driving back Sunday morning.

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

I only put Lawrence ahead of Columbia because Lawrence gets better concerts and has the excellent Free State Brewpub.

Free State is amazing...****ing amazing.

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by alnorth

OK, now lets stipulate that there are no 4-hour division drives for FSU, anywhere.

EVERY division game (ignoring Clemson) is either type C or D, and NC isn't as cool as you make it out to be. The downside of Boston is seeing the worst team this side of Duke, which should come close to cancelling it out, I mean, we're not talking about a beach or NYC, its just Boston.

I agree that there are no "A" trips. Boston, DC, Chapel Hill, etc. are all "C" trips. Their entire division in the Big XII would be "D".

[qabbaan]

Originally Posted by alnorth

This is not beneficial to OU/UT.

It doesn't make Texas and Oklahoma more influential in the new conference than they were in the old. That would be nearly impossible. But what realignment has done is brought in a number of football programs which all slot in above the old Big 12 have-nots. The influence of the old, local Big 12 schools will be less than it ever was. The conference has effectively been replace by something new.

In truth the old Big 12 has died. The new conference is Texas, TCU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Florida State, Clemson, West Virginia. Its like an alternate conference in the SEC's footprint. The local schools are geographically out of the way now, and surely not major players in the conference anymore if it's to be measured by football.

It's good that they still had a chair by default when the music stopped but this is going to be a very different world for the KC area schools.

[alnorth]

Originally Posted by qabbaan

It doesn't make Texas and Oklahoma more influential in the new conference than they were in the old. That would be nearly impossible. But what realignment has done is brought in a number of football programs which all slot in above the old Big 12 have-nots. The influence of the old, local Big 12 schools will be less than it ever was. The conference has effectively been replace by something new.

In truth the old Big 12 has died. The new conference is Texas, TCU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Florida State, Clemson, West Virginia. Its like an alternate conference in the SEC's footprint. The local schools are geographically out of the way now, and surely not major players in the conference anymore if it's to be measured by football.

It's good that they still had a chair by default when the music stopped but this is going to be a very different world for the KC area schools.

counterpoint: Texas and OU have 2 votes.

Going from 2 votes out of 10, to 2 votes out of 12 dilutes their influence. Not sure why people panicked about them can't see that.

[alnorth]

Regarding being "divisionless", the only thing that might work is dynamic divisions, that would be something that the NCAA would allow and which would work without taking the risk that the conference champ is seen as illegitimate.

Practically speaking, we wouldn't really have divisions, and we've got all the flexibility in the world to accommodate people's needs to play here or there once a year, once every 2 years, or whatever.

All you have to do is make sure that 2 pairs of 6 teams play each other each year. The membership of those 2 groups can change at the whim of the Big 12, and we wouldn't really see it as permanent divisions, but as far as the NCAA rules are concerned, we'd inform them that our divisions in 2013, for the purpose of the CCG, are X. In 2014, we'd inform them that our divisions have changed to Y. In 2015, we'd inform the NCAA that our divisions have changed again, to Z, etc.

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by alnorth

Regarding being "divisionless", the only thing that might work is dynamic divisions, that would be something that the NCAA would allow and which would work without taking the risk that the conference champ is seen as illegitimate.

Practically speaking, we wouldn't really have divisions, and we've got all the flexibility in the world to accommodate people's needs to play here or there once a year, once every 2 years, or whatever.

All you have to do is make sure that 2 pairs of 6 teams play each other each year. The membership of those 2 groups can change at the whim of the Big 12, and we wouldn't really see it as permanent divisions, but as far as the NCAA rules are concerned, we'd inform them that our divisions in 2013, for the purpose of the CCG, are X. In 2014, we'd inform them that our divisions have changed to Y. In 2015, we'd inform the NCAA that our divisions have changed again, to Z, etc.

There will be divisions. Don't over-think this.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

I only put Lawrence ahead of Columbia because Lawrence gets better concerts and has the excellent Free State Brewpub.

Location of the university to downtown tips things in Columbia's favor, but this is not to say that Lawrence isn't pretty cool in its own right.