Home Mail MemberMap Chat (0) Wallpapers
Go Back   ChiefsPlanet > The Lounge > D.C.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-05-2012, 12:15 PM  
The Rick The Rick is offline
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Casino cash: $55299
Court Says Gay Rights Trump Religious Rights


Quote:
Court Says Gay Rights Trump Religious Rights
By Todd Starnes

The New Mexico Court of Appeals upheld a ruling by the state’s Civil Rights Commission that a Christian photographer who refused to take pictures of a gay couple’s commitment ceremony violated the state’s discrimination law.

“Elane Photography may not discriminate in its commercial activities against protected classes as the basis for expressing its religious freedom,” Judge Tim Garcia wrote in a 45-page ruling.

The case dates back to 2006 when Vanessa Willock tried to hire Elane Photography for a “same-gender ceremony.” New Mexico law does not recognize either marriage or civil unions between persons of the same sex.

Elane Hugenin declined to accept the job and explained to Willock that because of their Christian beliefs the studio only handled “traditional weddings.”

In 2008 the New Mexico Human Rights Commission found Elane Photography guilty of “sexual orientation” discrimination. The studio is owned by a young Christian husband and wife who based their refusal on their religious beliefs.

The Court of Appeals determined that a photo studio is considered a public accommodation – much like a restaurant or a store. As such, the photo studio may not refuse services based on sexual orientation or gender identity – even if doing so would violate the religious principles of the owners.

“The owners of Elane Photography must accept the reasonable regulations and restrictions imposed upon the conduct of their commercial enterprise despite their personal religious beliefs that may conflict with these government interests,” Garcia wrote.

The Alliance Defense Fund, a Christian legal advocacy group, represented the photography studio. They plan to appeal the ruling.

“Americans in the marketplace should not be subjected to legal attacks for simply abiding by their beliefs,” senior counsel Jordan Lorence said in a statement. “Because the Constitution prohibits the state from forcing unwilling artists to promote a message they disagree with, we will certainly appeal this decision to the New Mexico Supreme Court.”

But the court ruled that once a business offers a service publicly, they must do so “without impermissible exception.”

Elane Photography posed a hypothetical situation to support its argument – imaging what would happen if an African-American photographer refused to photograph a Ku-Klux-Klan rally because the photographer “wanted to refrain from using her photography to communicate a message that she finds deeply offensive.”

However, Judge Garcia said the argument fails as a matter of law.

“The Ku-Klux-Klan is not a protected class,” he wrote. “Sexual orientation, however, is protected.”

The court ruled that the Christian photography company must pay fines totaling nearly $7,000.

You can read the entire court decision by clicking here.

Todd is the author of “Dispatches From Bitter America.” The book is endorsed by Sarah Palin, Mark Levin and Sean Hannity. Click here to get your copy!
http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes...us-rights.html
Posts: 2,231
The Rick must have mowed badgirl's lawn.The Rick must have mowed badgirl's lawn.The Rick must have mowed badgirl's lawn.The Rick must have mowed badgirl's lawn.The Rick must have mowed badgirl's lawn.The Rick must have mowed badgirl's lawn.The Rick must have mowed badgirl's lawn.The Rick must have mowed badgirl's lawn.The Rick must have mowed badgirl's lawn.The Rick must have mowed badgirl's lawn.The Rick must have mowed badgirl's lawn.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 12:20 PM   #2
Reaper16 Reaper16 is offline
Best in the World
 
Reaper16's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Better Than You
Casino cash: $991023
I'm not sure I agree that a photo studio is a public accommodation.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delano View Post
Reaper16's taste in beer, music, and literature are unmatched on this message board.
Posted via Mobile Device
Posts: 32,303
Reaper16 has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Reaper16 has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Reaper16 has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Reaper16 has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Reaper16 has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Reaper16 has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Reaper16 has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Reaper16 has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Reaper16 has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Reaper16 has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Reaper16 has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 12:21 PM   #3
Chief Faithful Chief Faithful is offline
Predicting Chiefs Victory
 
Chief Faithful's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2001
Casino cash: $41908
I didn't know that sexual orientation was a protected class.
Posts: 4,267
Chief Faithful has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.Chief Faithful has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.Chief Faithful has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.Chief Faithful has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.Chief Faithful has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.Chief Faithful has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.Chief Faithful has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.Chief Faithful has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.Chief Faithful has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.Chief Faithful has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.Chief Faithful has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 12:22 PM   #4
The Rick The Rick is offline
Veteran
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Casino cash: $55299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper16 View Post
I'm not sure I agree that a photo studio is a public accommodation.
Exactly. At first glance, seems like the equivalent of forcing an artist to paint a picture of something they don't want paint.
Posts: 2,231
The Rick must have mowed badgirl's lawn.The Rick must have mowed badgirl's lawn.The Rick must have mowed badgirl's lawn.The Rick must have mowed badgirl's lawn.The Rick must have mowed badgirl's lawn.The Rick must have mowed badgirl's lawn.The Rick must have mowed badgirl's lawn.The Rick must have mowed badgirl's lawn.The Rick must have mowed badgirl's lawn.The Rick must have mowed badgirl's lawn.The Rick must have mowed badgirl's lawn.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 12:28 PM   #5
Mile High Mania Mile High Mania is offline
Barrel Man - RIP
 
Mile High Mania's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Tejas
Casino cash: $81814
So, what about a web designer?

Let's say this guy owns his own web design business... a GBLT group inquires about his services to build and design a website for them. Can he just refuse or is he also in the same group as the photographer?
__________________

Posts: 19,649
Mile High Mania Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.Mile High Mania Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.Mile High Mania Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.Mile High Mania Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.Mile High Mania Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.Mile High Mania Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.Mile High Mania Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.Mile High Mania Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.Mile High Mania Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.Mile High Mania Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.Mile High Mania Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 12:29 PM   #6
vailpass vailpass is offline
Yah Mules!
 
vailpass's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2001
Casino cash: $99234871
These one who sucks the peniss are going to bring about a serious backlash on themselves.
And not in the way they enjoy.
__________________
It don't matter what line we hand you
When we come a crawlin' in.
We ain't wrong, we ain't sorry,
An' it's probably gonna happen again.

T. Byrd
Posts: 36,530
vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 12:50 PM   #7
Setsuna Setsuna is offline
Ronin
 
Setsuna's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Gator Country
Casino cash: $141829
Quote:
Originally Posted by vailpass View Post
These one who sucks the peniss are going to bring about a serious backlash on themselves.
And not in the way they enjoy.


If he owns his own business, I don't see how he doesn't have the right to deny his business. Does he have a monopoly on the photography market in that city?
__________________
RESOLVE

Last edited by Setsuna; 06-05-2012 at 12:51 PM.. Reason: cas
Posts: 10,299
Setsuna is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Setsuna is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Setsuna is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Setsuna is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Setsuna is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Setsuna is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Setsuna is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Setsuna is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Setsuna is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Setsuna is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Setsuna is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 01:03 PM   #8
mikey23545 mikey23545 is online now
MVP
 
mikey23545's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Casino cash: $118559
Soon, two percent of the population will form an oligarchical ruling class in the U.S.
Posts: 11,861
mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 06:33 PM   #9
La literatura La literatura is offline
MVP
 
La literatura's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2011
Casino cash: $50809
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Faithful View Post
I didn't know that sexual orientation was a protected class.
I think a state could determine their own additional protected classes, even if the federal courts do not recognize it at federal common law. Perhaps New Mexico has done so.

I don't think sexual orientation should be recognized as a protected class, however. The arch of equality for gays is tremendously positive, and in 10 years, it will probably be absurd to think that gays were once prohibited from even having gay sex.

It's an irritating ruling, because people who believe that gay marriage is wrong should be able to decline their photography services to a gay couple. Ideally, Christian businesses should be able to be open about who their customer preferences are (traditional marriages), and non-traditional couples should seek out the better business that is open to them. We would let the market decide.
Posts: 7,171
La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 06:34 PM   #10
RNR RNR is offline
Ok which door do I leave from
 
RNR's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Close to the big pond~
Casino cash: $34863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Literature View Post
I think a state could determine their own additional protected classes, even if the federal courts do not recognize it at federal common law. Perhaps New Mexico has done so.

I don't think sexual orientation should be recognized as a protected class, however. The arch of equality for gays is tremendously positive, and in 10 years, it will probably be absurd to think that gays were once prohibited from even having gay sex.

It's an irritating ruling, because people who believe that gay marriage is wrong should be able to decline their photography services to a gay couple. Ideally, Christian businesses should be able to be open about who their customer preferences are (traditional marriages), and non-traditional couples should seek out the better business that is open to them. We would let the market decide.
Not if they follow the bible
__________________

"If it’s true that our species is alone in the universe, then I’d have to say that the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little"
George Carlin~
Posts: 23,891
RNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.RNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.RNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.RNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.RNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.RNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.RNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.RNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.RNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.RNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.RNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 06:37 PM   #11
healthpellets healthpellets is offline
Long Live John Galt
 
healthpellets's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: On the edge of reason
Casino cash: $18717
It's silly.

However...

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportsshrink View Post
If you think the 2010 elections where you Marxist Dems got shellacked was bad, get ready for the American civilians version of our D-day at the polls to save this country come this Nov of 2012 !!

Romney will win in a landslide 6-10pt victory. Count on it !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Do you live here? Nope.

Mind your own business.
Posts: 1,869
healthpellets must have mowed badgirl's lawn.healthpellets must have mowed badgirl's lawn.healthpellets must have mowed badgirl's lawn.healthpellets must have mowed badgirl's lawn.healthpellets must have mowed badgirl's lawn.healthpellets must have mowed badgirl's lawn.healthpellets must have mowed badgirl's lawn.healthpellets must have mowed badgirl's lawn.healthpellets must have mowed badgirl's lawn.healthpellets must have mowed badgirl's lawn.healthpellets must have mowed badgirl's lawn.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 06:40 PM   #12
RNR RNR is offline
Ok which door do I leave from
 
RNR's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Close to the big pond~
Casino cash: $34863
Quote:
Originally Posted by healthpellets View Post
It's silly.

However...

Prayer has promoted bigotry throughout history~
__________________

"If it’s true that our species is alone in the universe, then I’d have to say that the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little"
George Carlin~
Posts: 23,891
RNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.RNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.RNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.RNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.RNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.RNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.RNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.RNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.RNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.RNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.RNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 06:46 PM   #13
alnorth alnorth is offline
MVP
 
alnorth's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Iowania
Casino cash: $12398132
I personally believe anyone should be able to refuse to sell to, or do business with, anyone for any reason. Trying to restrict that is only going to cause them to come up with any other reason they can think of to say no.

If an old-timey southern restaurant owner wants to refuse to serve "coloreds", he should be able to do so. If a car salesman, or this photographer insists on doing business with a woman's husband and never with her, they should be able to do so. The consequence for doing something like this which the community abhors should be boycotts, losing business, bad publicity, etc. (exception: if you provide some kind of vital service important to public health like a pharmacy or hospital, you don't get that kind of leeway)

However, if we are going to have laws that say a public business is not allowed to refuse service to protected classes, and if minority races and women are considered protected classes, then I don't think this case be an exception at all. Either a business should be able to refuse to do business with any race, gender, or sexual orientation, or they shouldn't be able to refuse any of them.
__________________
<WarMoose> Think about how stupid the average person is. Now realize that half of them are dumber than that.
<Chunda> Why half?
Posts: 25,483
alnorth 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.alnorth 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.alnorth 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.alnorth 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.alnorth 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.alnorth 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.alnorth 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.alnorth 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.alnorth 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.alnorth 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.alnorth 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 06:47 PM   #14
alnorth alnorth is offline
MVP
 
alnorth's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Iowania
Casino cash: $12398132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Literature View Post
I think a state could determine their own additional protected classes, even if the federal courts do not recognize it at federal common law. Perhaps New Mexico has done so.

I don't think sexual orientation should be recognized as a protected class, however. The arch of equality for gays is tremendously positive, and in 10 years, it will probably be absurd to think that gays were once prohibited from even having gay sex.

It's an irritating ruling, because people who believe that gay marriage is wrong should be able to decline their photography services to a gay couple. Ideally, Christian businesses should be able to be open about who their customer preferences are (traditional marriages), and non-traditional couples should seek out the better business that is open to them. We would let the market decide.
If women and African Americans are protected classes, and should continue to be protected classes, I find it hard to believe that gays should not. (I know the feds haven't done so yet, but they probably will pretty soon)
__________________
<WarMoose> Think about how stupid the average person is. Now realize that half of them are dumber than that.
<Chunda> Why half?
Posts: 25,483
alnorth 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.alnorth 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.alnorth 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.alnorth 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.alnorth 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.alnorth 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.alnorth 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.alnorth 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.alnorth 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.alnorth 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.alnorth 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 06:50 PM   #15
La literatura La literatura is offline
MVP
 
La literatura's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2011
Casino cash: $50809
Quote:
Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
I personally believe anyone should be able to refuse to sell to, or do business with, anyone for any reason. Trying to restrict that is only going to cause them to come up with any other reason they can think of to say no.

If an old-timey southern restaurant owner wants to refuse to serve "coloreds", he should be able to do so. If a car salesman, or this photographer insists on doing business with a woman's husband and never with her, they should be able to do so. The consequence for doing something like this which the community abhors should be boycotts, losing business, bad publicity, etc. (exception: if you provide some kind of vital service important to public health like a pharmacy or hospital, you don't get that kind of leeway)

However, if we are going to have laws that say a public business is not allowed to refuse service to protected classes, and if minority races and women are considered protected classes, then I don't think this should be an exception at all. Either a business should be able to refuse to do business with any race, gender, or sexual orientation, or they shouldn't be able to refuse any of them.
There is a small distinction between "sexual orientation" and "gay marriage" that I think is important, though. Sexual orientation is an immutable characteristic, but gay marriage is an act that one does.
Posts: 7,171
La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.