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Old 09-05-2012, 11:44 PM  
T-post Tom T-post Tom is offline
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Clinton: Wow

Amazing speech. Party wonks & haters can't deny the man's genius. Clinton might be the one man GOPs fear more than Grover Norquist when it comes to elections.
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Old 09-06-2012, 01:24 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
Cite? I have alot of respect for Woodward. Reading his Obama's Wars now. Excellent book. Of course i"m several years late in picking it up, but oh well. Too many books not enough time.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bob-w...5#.UEj4ZSJcjKc

An explosive mix of dysfunction, miscommunication, and misunderstandings inside and outside the White House led to the collapse of a historic spending and debt deal that President Obama and House Speaker John Boehner were on the verge of reaching last summer, according to revelations in author Bob Woodward's latest book.

The book, "The Price of Politics," on sale Sept. 11, 2012, shows how close the president and the House speaker were to defying Washington odds and establishing a spending framework that included both new revenues and major changes to long-sacred entitlement programs.

But at a critical juncture, with an agreement tantalizingly close, Obama pressed Boehner for additional taxes as part of a final deal -- a miscalculation, in retrospect, given how far the House speaker felt he'd already gone.

The president called three times to speak with Boehner about his latest offer, according to Woodward. But the speaker didn't return the president's phone call for most of an agonizing day, in what Woodward calls a "monumental communications lapse" between two of the most powerful men in the country.

When Boehner finally did call back, he jettisoned the entire deal. Obama lost his famous cool, according to Woodward, with a "flash of pure fury" coming from the president; one staffer in the room said Obama gripped the phone so tightly he thought he would break it.

"He was spewing coals," Boehner told Woodward, in what is described as a borderline "presidential tirade."

"He was pissed…. He wasn't going to get a damn dime more out of me. He knew how far out on a limb I was. But he was hot. It was clear to me that coming to an agreement with him was not going to happen, and that I had to go to Plan B."
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Old 09-06-2012, 01:25 PM   #107
DaneMcCloud DaneMcCloud is offline
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Originally Posted by Bwana View Post
Good old Bill.

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Old 09-06-2012, 01:25 PM   #108
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Republicans wouldn't work with Obama even after they got trounced in 2008. Mandates don't exist anymore. The parties hate each other. It leads to complete dysfunction, and it's the rule now.
Agreed.
Where we differ is that I believe Congress will come together and work with Potus again but never under obama. Be it an R or a D it is going to take a different Potus to get things moving again.
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Old 09-06-2012, 01:26 PM   #109
KChiefer KChiefer is offline
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Almost forgot to address the tech bubble. The tech bubble was a result of cheap money, Wall st greed and incompetence, and people being ****ing dumb and paying outrageous valuations for supposed growth.
I'm reading up on it. TRA97 which lowered capital gains on certain stocks caused a bubble. Hmmmm, who do we know that is a big fan of low capital gains taxing???

Others things are companies cooking their books and an influx of noob e-traders both of which are a result of non/failed regulation. Who likes a deregulated market?

Also the Fed raising interest rates which a president doesn't control.
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Old 09-06-2012, 01:29 PM   #110
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Agreed.
Where we differ is that I believe Congress will come together and work with Potus again but never under obama. Be it an R or a D it is going to take a different Potus to get things moving again.
Well, that's just plain stupid.

If the people of the this country elects a POTUS and one political party absolutely REFUSES to compromise in order to better this country, those involved, whether R or D, should be thrown out on their asses.
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Old 09-06-2012, 01:30 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
Should I find one with a picture of that Republican Senator from Idaho or wherever trolling in a public bathroom with some guy saying "vote for us, we like to **** you up the ass"?


Just sayin'...


Well sure, go run down a Larry Craig picture. Will this one work?

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Old 09-06-2012, 01:30 PM   #112
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Donger -- I looked it up after I saw your post and found the same quote. Looks like he's citing Boehner as his source. Would be interested in reading the entire book and see if there's another side to the story -- which I have repeatedly heard.

It's really a tragedy. That deal should've gotten done.
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Old 09-06-2012, 01:35 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
Donger -- I looked it up after I saw your post and found the same quote. Looks like he's citing Boehner as his source. Would be interested in reading the entire book and see if there's another side to the story -- which I have repeatedly heard.

It's really a tragedy. That deal should've gotten done.
Here's a few more from the link above. I, too, am looking forward to reading the book:

While questions persist about whether any grand bargain reached by the principals could have actually passed in the Tea Party-dominated Congress, Woodward issues a harsh judgment on White House and congressional leaders for failing to act boldly at a moment of crisis. Particular blame falls on the president.

"It was increasingly clear that no one was running Washington. That was trouble for everyone, but especially for Obama," Woodward writes.


With the president taking charge, though, Obama found that he had little history with members of Congress to draw on. His administration's early decision to forego bipartisanship for the sake of speed around the stimulus bill was encapsulated by his then-chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel: "We have the votes. F--- 'em," he's quoted in the book as saying.
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Old 09-06-2012, 01:43 PM   #114
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Here's the real question -- if Bill Clinton had run in 2012 would he have won? I'm hard-pressed to think he wouldn't beat both of these guys.
Yes. And it would not even be close. Clinton is the last great rock star politician alive today. Neither party has come close to having any candidate run as good a campaign as he did since he left office.
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Old 09-06-2012, 01:49 PM   #115
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Old 09-06-2012, 02:11 PM   #116
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Well sure, go run down a Larry Craig picture. Will this one work?

Mr. Wide Stance himself. The cop that busted him is a buddy of a guy I work with. They actually have an airport bathroom detail, that poor bastard must have pulled the short straw.
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Old 09-06-2012, 02:13 PM   #117
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None of the liberals here have touched my statements about Clinton and the repeal of glass-stegal or brooksley borne.
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Old 09-06-2012, 02:15 PM   #118
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Agreed.
Where we differ is that I believe Congress will come together and work with Potus again but never under obama. Be it an R or a D it is going to take a different Potus to get things moving again.
Obstruction is over come January. There is no further advantage, no matter how harmful its already been, to continuing with it. The GOP knows they cannot present a decade of obstruction to the public, not this public, not this public who now views the current congress as the worst in history. This nation is fed up with the inaction and partisanship. If the Democrats keep the senate and there is any indication whatsoever of continued obstruction, senator Reid WILL change the filibuster rules. He has nothing to lose with an action like this because in the next 2 cycles after this election the republicans will have to defend many senate seats that will be vulnerable, and Mitch McConnell is one of them. The caucus can't get rid of Mitch now, but there is no way they stick with obstructionism. Voter suppression is their last hope along with blatant lies that they believe will accomplish more for them than cost them. Nope, this one is for all the marbles, and they bet it on Romney...LOL
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Old 09-06-2012, 02:15 PM   #119
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Hillary is NOT Bill. Don't even try to compare the two.

The GOP fears and respects Bill. They love to take shits on Hillary.
You must have forgotten 1992 through 2000.
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Old 09-06-2012, 02:19 PM   #120
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Clinton has always been a polished speaker and he presented well last night.

The problem I have is that he wasn't completely honest and failed to recall some pretty serious issues. Maybe he forgot, but I didn't, that during his term, his policies led to a big market crash that GUTTED all of the investments I made my first 5 years out of college. The economy crashed hard at the end of his term.

The dems held him up as a beacon of women's rights, when all I could wonder was if the snarky young gal known of requiring $50/month condom budget in a nearly blue dress was in front of him, if he'd be trying to give her a baby to abort. While Fluke droned on angrily about treatment of women by Romney, isn't it a little ironic to tote Clinton out to applause afterwards?

Clinton can harp on military budgets and spending, but his cuts to the military are partially why it was in somewhat sorry shape when we needed it.

He spent last night licking Obama's tummy during his speech, but 4 years ago, he and his loving bride very publicly had different opinions.
Fair points for the most part.

The economy actually crashed at the start of the Bush administration. The 2008-2009 recession, however, was caused by Clinton policies that Bush failed to act on. So Clinton's economic record isn't as glowing as people make it out to be.

As for the women's rights... women as a demographic are far more pragmatic, polling suggests. They're willing to put up with scumbag womanizers, by and large, if they get the policies they favor. Clinton polls better with women than he does with men.
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