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Old 09-05-2012, 11:44 PM  
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Clinton: Wow

Amazing speech. Party wonks & haters can't deny the man's genius. Clinton might be the one man GOPs fear more than Grover Norquist when it comes to elections.
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Old 09-06-2012, 03:54 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
The offer to take him.
First, there's at least some debate over whether that offer was made.

http://www.factcheck.org/2008/01/cli...ing-bin-laden/

Second -- take him and do what with him? There was no indictment of him outstanding, I don't believe, and no particularly good proof that he had broken any American laws at the time. Killing him would've violated American laws, and there was no way to just hold him anywhere. He would've created a rather massive headache in fact.

Sure, with 20/20 hindsight we should've taken him and done something, anything, with him, but how the hell was Clinton supposed to know that at the time?

Quote:
It is clear, however, that Berger, at least, did consider the possibility of bringing bin Laden to the U.S., but, as he told The Washington Post in 2001, "The FBI did not believe we had enough evidence to indict bin Laden at that time, and therefore opposed bringing him to the United States."
(same link)
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Old 09-06-2012, 03:55 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Here's a few more from the link above. I, too, am looking forward to reading the book:
[/i]

Have you read Obama's Wars? It's GREAT stuff. It's literally a must read for anyone interested in the Afghanistan situation, which should be everyone on this forum.
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Old 09-06-2012, 03:56 PM   #153
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Then Romney is too, except it wasn't during a recession.

Besides, health care was/is massively broken and everyone knows it. Nearly any change is quite likely for the better. Some elements of it have proven so popular so far that the insurers have already promised to keep it even if the law is somehow repealed by Romney (26 year olds on parents' insurance and I think there was one other provision).

And it's frankly the only thing you can call remotely radically left. He has not shut Guantanamo Bay, he has not fled from Afghanistan, he has not stopped the drone strikes in Pakistan, he has gone into Pakistan in a daring raid to get Bin Laden.
Yep. Actually they were going to keep several of the provisions of Obamacare. That is because they helped write the bill.
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Old 09-06-2012, 03:56 PM   #154
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Both NAFTA and welfare reform alone would move him off far left. He is a lying serial rapist shitbag but far left he is not~


Wrong ****ing President.
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Old 09-06-2012, 03:59 PM   #155
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Have you read Obama's Wars? It's GREAT stuff. It's literally a must read for anyone interested in the Afghanistan situation, which should be everyone on this forum.
Yes
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Old 09-06-2012, 04:01 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
Where do I start? His continuation and expansion of Bush policies in regards to wireless wiretaps etc, sending 70,000+ troops to Afghanistan, the relentless drone wars that have wiped out AQ, the ouster of Mubarak, military involvement in Libya... heck I just read the other day we have Marines in Guatemala trying to stop drugs.

I am sure at some point we will be in a war with Iran and have troops in Syria as well.
I agree with some of that, I suppose.
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Old 09-06-2012, 04:01 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by vailpass View Post
What?
They will never be completely gone but they are a very shell of what they once were thanks to both Bush and Obama along with our allies.

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Senior British officials believe that a "last push" in 2012 is likely to definitively destroy al-Qaida's remaining senior leadership in Pakistan, opening a new phase in the battle against Islamist terrorism.

So many senior members of the organization have been killed in an intense campaign of air strikes involving missiles launched from unmanned drones that "only a handful of the key players" remain alive, one official said.

However, well-informed sources outside government and close to Islamist groups in north Africa said at least two relatively senior al-Qaida figures have already made their way to Libya, with others intercepted en route, raising fears that north Africa could become a new "theatre of jihad" in coming months or years.
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Old 09-06-2012, 04:04 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
Then Romney is too, except it wasn't during a recession.

Besides, health care was/is massively broken and everyone knows it. Nearly any change is quite likely for the better. Some elements of it have proven so popular so far that the insurers have already promised to keep it even if the law is somehow repealed by Romney (26 year olds on parents' insurance and I think there was one other provision).

And it's frankly the only thing you can call remotely radically left. He has not shut Guantanamo Bay, he has not fled from Afghanistan, he has not stopped the drone strikes in Pakistan, he has gone into Pakistan in a daring raid to get Bin Laden.
A state plan versus a federal one, and the state actually wanted it. But, yeah, I'd call the federal government intervention in (what is it? 30% of our economy) pretty far left, and far enough left to tilt him away from center-left overall.
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Old 09-06-2012, 04:07 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
First, there's at least some debate over whether that offer was made.

http://www.factcheck.org/2008/01/cli...ing-bin-laden/

Second -- take him and do what with him? There was no indictment of him outstanding, I don't believe, and no particularly good proof that he had broken any American laws at the time. Killing him would've violated American laws, and there was no way to just hold him anywhere. He would've created a rather massive headache in fact.

Sure, with 20/20 hindsight we should've taken him and done something, anything, with him, but how the hell was Clinton supposed to know that at the time?



(same link)
That's because Clinton rather foolishly treated bin Laden as a law enforcement case. Even after Cole and bin Laden was indicted, Clinton red lighted a mission because the SIGINT showed that there was a child's swing at the target.
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Old 09-06-2012, 04:07 PM   #160
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Have you read Obama's Wars? It's GREAT stuff. It's literally a must read for anyone interested in the Afghanistan situation, which should be everyone on this forum.
No, I haven't but I appreciate the recommendation.
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Old 09-06-2012, 04:13 PM   #161
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Wrong ****ing President.
Eat shit
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Old 09-06-2012, 04:15 PM   #162
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It's got nothing to do with Obama and everything to do with Washington DC in the last 15 years. Increasingly the parties wont' work with each other. The Republican moderate doesn't really exist anymore in Congress. The Tea Party, NRA and Grover Norquist and the religious right have squeezed them all out. Work with the Democrats and we'll toss you out on your ass is the message.

I'm afraid we'll never see a remotely functional Washignton DC ever again. Now it's "no loaf is better than half a loaf".
Grover Norquist is the man who destroyed America, and those that signed the blackmail pledge represent the epitome of weakness. They cannot even risk casting a vote for jobs with millions in need of action. They cannot hide behind ideology, they are weak and they have allowed a blackmailer to force them to live in fear. There are 200 of these republicans, incompetent weak leaders who have failed America and acted to harm the country.
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Old 09-06-2012, 04:21 PM   #163
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I would still vote for this guy right now to lead our country.
Just get the economy going again and let him get all the bJ's in the oval he wants.

As far as who you vote for....... Why would you vote for Romeny for economic reasons? His plans are George W.'s plans, samd ****ing thing. We know how that turned out. Why would it be any different this time?
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I believe Hitler hated Jews and had a lot of them killed. I dont believe it was anywhere close to 6 million though. I'm not an anti-semite; I just think that number has been severely inflated and there is a lot of evidence that supports this belief.
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Old 09-06-2012, 04:23 PM   #164
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I missed it. Did he explain why the additional $5 trillion in debt and 8.0%+ unemployment that Obama said he wouldn't give us over the last four years happened?
He said he watched the Republican convention.....heres what he learned......his words

The Republicans made this huge mess and they are ticked off that this guy isnt cleaning it up fast enough, hire us again.
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I believe Hitler hated Jews and had a lot of them killed. I dont believe it was anywhere close to 6 million though. I'm not an anti-semite; I just think that number has been severely inflated and there is a lot of evidence that supports this belief.
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Old 09-06-2012, 04:26 PM   #165
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Grover Norquist is the man who destroyed America, and those that signed the blackmail pledge represent the epitome of weakness. They cannot even risk casting a vote for jobs with millions in need of action. They cannot hide behind ideology, they are weak and they have allowed a blackmailer to force them to live in fear. There are 200 of these republicans, incompetent weak leaders who have failed America and acted to harm the country.
When you finally decide to slit them make sure you do it the long way, up and down, so they can't stitch them shut and ruin your grand plan.
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