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Old 07-20-2012, 10:50 AM  
notorious notorious is offline
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Gun Control

We have all heard about what happened in Aurora, Co, and I think that Gun Control is going to be a huge topic in the following months.


What measures need to be taken? Do you have any ideas that will help prevent this kind of thing from happening again as it pertains to guns?
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:42 PM   #481
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Originally Posted by CoMoChief View Post
"one" of the shooters was a army psyop officer. Just like "the Joker" being treated by a military psychologist.
That's what I'd do if I were "them". I'd take a guy with special training in "army psyops" and being treated by "military psychologists" and send them out on killing rampages. That way, they could never be traced back to me.
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Old 08-20-2012, 10:19 AM   #482
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Here's some great points to throw out to those pesky gun-grabbers. I especially like number 12....


40 Reasons to Ban Guns

1. Banning guns works, which is why New York, DC, Detroit & Chicago cops need guns.
2. Washington DC’s low murder rate of 69 per 100,000 is due to strict gun control, and Indianapolis’s high murder rate of 9 per 100,000 is due to the lack of gun control.
3. Statistics showing high murder rates justify gun control but statistics showing increasing murder rates after gun control are “just statistics.”
4. The Brady Bill and the Assault Weapons Ban, both of which went into effect in 1994 are responsible for the decrease in violent crime rates,which have been declining since 1991.
5. We must get rid of guns because a deranged lunatic may go on a shooting spree at any time and anyone who would own a gun out of fear of such a lunatic is paranoid.
6. The more helpless you are the safer you are from criminals.
7. An intruder will be incapacitated by tear gas or oven spray, but if shot with a .357 Magnum will get angry and kill you.
8. A woman raped and strangled is morally superior to a woman with a smoking gun and a dead rapist at her feet.
9. When confronted by violent criminals, you should “put up no defense – give them what they want, or run” (Handgun Control Inc. Chairman Pete Shields, Guns Don’t Die – People Do, 1981, p. 125).
10. The New England Journal of Medicine is filled with expert advice about guns; just like Guns & Ammo has some excellent treatises on heart surgery.
11. One should consult an automotive engineer for safer seat belts, a civil engineer for a better bridge, a surgeon for internal medicine, a computer programmer for hard drive problems, and Sarah Brady for firearms expertise.
12. The 2nd Amendment, ratified in 1787, refers to the National Guard, which was created 130 years later, in 1917.
13. The National Guard, federally funded, with bases on federal land, using federally-owned weapons, vehicles, buildings and uniforms, punishing trespassers under federal law, is a “state” militia.
14. These phrases: “right of the people peaceably to assemble,” “right of the people to be secure in their homes,” “enumerations herein of certain rights shall not be construed to disparage others retained by the people,” and “The powers not delegated herein are reserved to the states respectively, and to the people” all refer to individuals, but “the right of the people to keep and bear arms” refers to the state.
15. “The Constitution is strong and will never change.” But we should ban and seize all guns thereby violating the 2nd, 4th, and 5th Amendments to that Constitution.
16. Rifles and handguns aren’t necessary to national defense! Of course, the army has hundreds of thousands of them.
17. Private citizens shouldn’t have handguns, because they aren’t “military weapons”, but private citizens shouldn’t have “assault rifles”, because they are military weapons.
18. In spite of waiting periods, background checks, fingerprinting,government forms, etc., guns today are too readily available, which is responsible for recent school shootings. In the 1940’s, 1950’s and 1960’s,anyone could buy guns at hardware stores, army surplus stores, gas stations,variety stores, Sears mail order, no waiting, no background check, no fingerprints, no government forms and there were no school shootings.
19. The NRA’s attempt to run a “don’t touch” campaign about kids handling guns is propaganda, but the anti-gun lobby’s attempt to run a “don’t touch” campaign is responsible social activity.
20. Guns are so complex that special training is necessary to use them properly, and so simple to use that they make murder easy.
21. A handgun, with up to 4 controls, is far too complex for the typical adult to learn to use, as opposed to an automobile that only has 20.
22. Women are just as intelligent and capable as men but a woman with a gun is “an accident waiting to happen” and gun makers’ advertisements aimed at women are “preying on their fears.”
23. Ordinary people in the presence of guns turn into slaughtering butchers but revert to normal when the weapon is removed.
24. Guns cause violence, which is why there are so many mass killings at gun shows.
25. A majority of the population supports gun control, just like a majority of the population supported owning slaves.
26. Any self-loading small arm can legitimately be considered to be a “weapon of mass destruction” or an “assault weapon.”
27. Most people can’t be trusted, so we should have laws against guns, which most people will abide by because they can be trusted.
28. The right of Internet pornographers to exist cannot be questioned because it is constitutionally protected by the Bill of Rights, but the use of handguns for self defense is not really protected by the Bill of Rights.
29. Free speech entitles one to own newspapers, transmitters, computers, and typewriters, but self- defense only justifies bare hands.
30. The ACLU is good because it uncompromisingly defends certain parts of the Constitution, and the NRA is bad, because it defends other parts of the Constitution.
31. Charlton Heston, a movie actor as president of the NRA was a cheap lunatic who should be ignored, but Michael Douglas, a movie actor as a representative of Handgun Control, Inc. is an ambassador for peace who is entitled to an audience at the UN arms control summit.
32. Police operate with backup within groups, which is why they need larger capacity pistol magazines than do “civilians” who must face criminals alone and therefore need less ammunition.
33. We should ban “Saturday Night Specials” and other inexpensive guns because it’s not fair that poor people have access to guns too.
34. Police officers have some special Jedi-like mastery over handguns that private citizens can never hope to obtain.
35. Private citizens don’t need a gun for self-protection because the police are there to protect them even though the Supreme Court says the police are not responsible for their protection.
36. Citizens don’t need to carry a gun for personal protection but police chiefs, who are desk-bound administrators who work in a building filled with cops, need a gun.
37. “Assault weapons” have no purpose other than to kill large numbers of people. The police need assault weapons. You do not.
38. When Microsoft pressures its distributors to give Microsoft preferential promotion, that’s bad; but when the Federal government pressures cities to buy guns only from Smith & Wesson, that’s good.
39. Trigger locks do not interfere with the ability to use a gun for defensive purposes, which is why you see police officers with one on their duty weapon.
40. Handgun Control, Inc., says they want to “keep guns out of the wrong hands.” Guess what? You have the wrong hands.
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Old 08-20-2012, 08:46 PM   #483
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I suspect that every logical fallacy ever devised is well represented on that list - the strawman in particular is all over it. I'm pretty sure I could type up a sentence to essentially nullify each of those 40 remarks, but to do that I'd be giving it legitimacy it doesn't really deserve.
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Old 08-20-2012, 09:06 PM   #484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LVNHACK View Post
Here's some great points to throw out to those pesky gun-grabbers. I especially like number 12....



12. The 2nd Amendment, ratified in 1787, refers to the National Guard, which was created 130 years later, in 1917.
The US Supreme Court rejected this interpretation in DC v. Heller.

As worded, it also makes little sense. Why specify language in an Amendment (important enough to need to add) when the entity it referred to wouldn't exist for more than a century?
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Old 08-21-2012, 03:55 PM   #485
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Originally Posted by banyon View Post
The US Supreme Court rejected this interpretation in DC v. Heller.

As worded, it also makes little sense. Why specify language in an Amendment (important enough to need to add) when the entity it referred to wouldn't exist for more than a century?
Because ordinary citizens may need to form an army and we may need to defend ourselves accordingly.
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Old 08-21-2012, 04:00 PM   #486
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There were militias long before there was the National Guard.
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Old 08-22-2012, 01:35 AM   #487
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Originally Posted by Aries Walker View Post
I suspect that every logical fallacy ever devised is well represented on that list - the strawman in particular is all over it. I'm pretty sure I could type up a sentence to essentially nullify each of those 40 remarks, but to do that I'd be giving it legitimacy it doesn't really deserve.

Please do. I don't think you can.
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:28 AM   #488
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I think the words, "shall not be infringed." is pretty clear. No regulations or restrictions what so ever.

The second amendment wasn't written so if things get really bad the citizens can go hunting. It was written so that the citizens can stand against oppressive and tyrannical forces, whoever they may be.

Only some liberals with their ideas of socialist utopias fail to understand that.
If freedom doesn't work for you, go live somewhere where it doesn't exist, instead of trying to take it away from the rest of us.
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:29 AM   #489
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If freedom doesn't work for you, go live somewhere where it doesn't exist, instead of trying to take it away from the rest of us.
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Old 08-31-2012, 09:17 AM   #490
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SAN ANTONIO - A woman is in critical condition after she was stabbed outside her child's school Tuesday morning.

The attack happened around 10:00 a.m. Tuesday outside the Bonham Academy on St. Mary's Street. Teresa Barron, 38, had just dropped off her child at the school when the child's father showed up, and the two got into an argument. The child's father, 38-year-old Roberto Barron allegedly then stabbed the woman several times in the upper body and neck area.

Police say a bystander who happened to be a concealed handgun license holder pulled his weapon and ordered Barron to drop the knife. Barron surrendered and was taken into custody by the bystander and a school district officer.

The woman was taken to San Antonio Military Medical Center.

Barron was arrested for aggravated assault, and is in jail on a $150,000 bond.
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Old 08-31-2012, 05:44 PM   #491
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Originally Posted by A Salt Weapon View Post
I think the words, "shall not be infringed." is pretty clear. No regulations or restrictions what so ever.

The second amendment wasn't written so if things get really bad the citizens can go hunting. It was written so that the citizens can stand against oppressive and tyrannical forces, whoever they may be.

Only some liberals with their ideas of socialist utopias fail to understand that.
If freedom doesn't work for you, go live somewhere where it doesn't exist, instead of trying to take it away from the rest of us.
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I think your wrong the liberals with their ideas of social utopias understand perfectly that disarming the general populace insures their very existence. Gun control is people control. I don't believe that they really believe taking guns from the majority of owners is going to make the streets safer. They can't be that stupid.
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Old 08-31-2012, 05:54 PM   #492
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Originally Posted by 2bikemike View Post
I think your wrong the liberals with their ideas of social utopias understand perfectly that disarming the general populace insures their very existence. Gun control is people control. I don't believe that they really believe taking guns from the majority of owners is going to make the streets safer. They can't be that stupid.
Yes they can. Their over simplistic and unrealistic view of the world informs them that more gun laws = less gun violence. Period. I have had this argument countless times and you simply can not get through to them with reality and facts.
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Old 08-31-2012, 06:15 PM   #493
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Yes they can. Their over simplistic and unrealistic view of the world informs them that more gun laws = less gun violence. Period. I have had this argument countless times and you simply can not get through to them with reality and facts.
Talk about simplistic. The last three posts are three guys agreeing that the issue is black and white with no nuance whatsoever.
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Old 08-31-2012, 06:16 PM   #494
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Because ordinary citizens may need to form an army and we may need to defend ourselves accordingly.
Then it wasn't referring to the (proper noun) National Guard, which was the point of the post I was responding to.
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Old 09-14-2012, 02:54 AM   #495
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From the Washington Times

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...test-gun-grab/

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GHEI: ATF’s latest gun grab

Agency reduces due process for seizing firearms

By THE WASHINGTON TIMES-The Washington Times Thursday, September 6, 2012

The Obama administration is making it easier for bureaucrats to take away guns without offering the accused any realistic due process. In a final rule published last week, the Justice Department granted the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) authority to “seize and administratively forfeit property involved in controlled-substance abuses.” That means government can grab firearms and other property from someone who has never been convicted or even charged with any crime.

It’s a dangerous extension of the civil-forfeiture doctrine, a surreal legal fiction in which the seized property — not a person — is put on trial. This allows prosecutors to dispense with pesky constitutional rights, which conveniently don’t apply to inanimate objects. In this looking-glass world, the owner is effectively guilty until proved innocent and has the burden of proving otherwise. Anyone falsely accused will never see his property again unless he succeeds in an expensive uphill legal battle.

Such seizures are common in drug cases, which sometimes can ensnare people who have done nothing wrong. James Lieto found out about civil forfeiture the hard way when the FBI seized $392,000 from his business because the money was being carried by an armored-car firm he had hired that had fallen under a federal investigation. As the Wall Street Journal reported, Mr. Lieto was never accused of any crime, yet he spent thousands in legal fees to get his money back.

Law enforcement agencies love civil forfeiture because it’s extremely lucrative. The Department of Justice’s Assets Forfeiture Fund had $2.8 billion in booty in 2011, according to a January audit. Seizing guns from purported criminals is nothing new; Justice destroyed or kept 11,355 guns last year, returning just 396 to innocent owners. The new ATF rule undoubtedly is designed to ramp up the gun-grabbing because, as the rule justification claims, “The nexus between drug trafficking and firearm violence is well established.”

The main problem is that civil forfeiture creates a perverse profit motive, leaving bureaucrats with strong incentives to abuse a process that doesn’t sufficiently protect those who may be wrongly accused. Criminal forfeiture is more appropriate because it’s tied to a conviction in a court with the option of a jury trial and evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. Innocents like Mr. Lieto have to fight against the might of the U.S. government with a watered-down standard that stacks the legal deck so prosecutors can get a quick win.

The rule extending civil-forfeiture power to the ATF recognizes this dynamic, stating with perhaps unconscious cynicism that an uncontested civil forfeiture “can be perfected for minimal cost” compared to the “hundreds or thousands of dollars” and “years” needed for judicial forfeiture. Nowhere is there any recognition of the burden placed on innocent citizens stripped of their property, or of the erosion of their civil liberties. In fact, the rule argues that, because in the past the ATF could turn over requests for civil forfeiture to the Drug Enforcement Administration, there has been no change in “individual rights.”

Instead of expanding the profit motive in policing, Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. should be working to eliminate it.

Nita Ghei is a contributing Opinion writer for The Washington Times.
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