Romey says an average middle class income is $200,000 - $250,000 true or not?

[BigRedChief]

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...d-mitt-romney/

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: You know Democrats are going to be wanting to get much more detail from you on how you’re going to pay for your tax cuts. We’ve heard that at the Democratic Convention. President Clinton said your math doesn’t work. I know you dispute what President Clinton said and what the Democrats that say that you’re going to have a $2,000 tax hike on middleclass families. I know you dispute that. You cite your own studies. But one of the studies you cite by Martin Feldstein at Harvard shows that to make your math work, it could work, if you eliminate the home mortgage, charity, and state and local tax deductions for everyone earning over $100,000. Is that what you propose?

MITT ROMNEY: No, that’s not what I propose. And, of course, part of my plan is to stimulate economic growth. The biggest source of getting the country to a balanced budget is not by raising taxes or by cutting spending. It’s by encouraging the growth of the economy. So my tax plan is to encourage investment in growth in America, more jobs, that means more people paying taxes. So that’s a big component of what allows us to get to a balanced budget.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: But his study, which you’ve cited, says it can only work if you take away those deductions for everyone earning more than $100,000.

MITT ROMNEY: Well, it doesn’t necessarily show the same growth that we’re anticipating. And I haven’t seen his precise study. But I can tell you that we can lower our rates–

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, you cited the study, though.

MITT ROMNEY: Well, I said that there are five different studies that point out that we can get to a balanced budget without raising taxes on middle income people. Let me tell you, George, the fundamentals of my tax policy are these. Number one, reduce tax burdens on middle-income people. So no one can say my plan is going to raise taxes on middle-income people, because principle number one is keep the burden down on middle-income taxpayers.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: Is $100,000 middle income?

MITT ROMNEY: No, middle income is $200,000 to $250,000 and less. So number one, don’t reduce– or excuse me, don’t raise taxes on middle-income people, lower them. Number two, don’t reduce the share of taxes paid by the wealthiest. The top 5% will still pay the same share of taxes they pay today. That’s principle one, principle two. Principle three is create incentives for growth, make it easier for businesses to start and to add jobs. And finally, simplify the code, make it easier for people to pay their taxes than the way they have to now.

[Nightfyre]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I would define a household as being out of the "middle class" if they meet either one of the following requirements:

1. they are not worried about retirement and anticipate being comfortable in retirement.

2. they don't need to work.

On Item #1, I would guess that starts being applicable at around $200,000 a year, and even that depends on the age of the person. A young person earning $200,000 a year may be much better positioned than a 63 year-old making that amount. On Item #2, income is irrelevant because it's more about wealth.

As mentioned in another thread, though, I think "middle class" shouldn't even be used any more. I think we should base our perceptions of affluence or lack thereof on SUSTAINABLE quality of life and not income.

I would add a qualifier. Unfortunately, some people are not responsible with debt and achieve an unsustainable boost to quality of life. Granted, they generally do not meet the criteria you specified.

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

But, the point of the thread was to see how many agree with romney, If you are making $200K-250K are you "middle class"?

Yes, as a family of four living on the coast you are on the FAR upper end of that very broad and useless term. In my not so humble opinion.

I add the coast thing because that's his area. Let's just say Boston.

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

So then, it's a matter of semantics? What do call a family of four that owns a home and two cars, takes a vacation once every few years but has little to no savings?

#1 doesn't matter what I would call them. They call themselves middle class.
#2 not enough data to make a judgment, but probably middle class in my opinion (which matters not one bit)

[Nightfyre]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

$300k? LOL

If you're pulling 300k, you're living in at least an $800k house driving a Lexus, Mercedes, Audi, etc., have kids in private school and so on.

NOT middle class by a LONG shot.

It also must be adjusted for local cost of living. Further, not everyone maintains your spending standard. Many people live well below their means.

[dirk digler]

In fairness to Mittens I don't believe he meant to say the middle class range is between $200-250k I think he meant to say $250k or less. But Obama really didn't mean to say you didn't build that so this is fair game IMO. Obama should be making ads about this as we speak.

To answer your question though middle class IMO is an individual making $30,000-$100,000\year.

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

That's what they self identify as. Don't blame me blame the silly term that nearly everyone thinks applies to them.

That's the thing. I bet people identify themselves as 'middle class', or at least 'upper middle class' up to the point where their estate has a big stone wall around it and a quarter-mile driveway.


"Middle class" may have once been a hard-defined term, but any more I think it's a concept more than a class. "Middle class" is people who get up and go to work every day because they don't have enough investment income to retire, or it's people who are retired and not wintering in second homes in resort areas.

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

In fairness to Mittens I don't believe he meant to say the middle class range is between $200-250k I think he meant to say $250k or less. But Obama really didn't mean to say you didn't build that so this is fair game IMO. Obama should be making ads about this as we speak.

To answer your question though middle class IMO is an individual making $30,000-$100,000\year.

Yeah that is kinda how I read it is as well.

30-100k per individual? So household of 4 being $60k - $200k ? That's pretty close to mine as well.

(again, I THINK household of 4 is the general accepted deal.. correct me if I have that wrong)

[Dave]

$75,000/yr in NYC is not nearly the same as $75,000/yr in Ohio, Missouri, etc.

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

Yeah that is kinda how I read it is as well.

30-100k per individual? So household of 4 being $60k - $200k ? That's pretty close to mine as well.

(again, I THINK household of 4 is the general accepted deal.. correct me if I have that wrong)

Yep per individual. Reading his quote I interpreted as individuals not families and if Romney did actually mean 200-250k is middle class then he is an idiot but I don't think he did. Of course you could be right and the accepted deal is for families.

And for comparison Obama has stated middle class is around 200k or less as well.

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

Yep per individual. Reading his quote I interpreted as individuals not families and if Romney did actually mean 200-250k is middle class then he is an idiot but I don't think he did. Of course you could be right and the accepted deal is for families.

And for comparison Obama has stated middle class is around 200k or less as well.

He came out later and said he meant HOUSEHOLD income.

Yeah, there really isn't much of a story here

[Cannibal]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

$300k? LOL

If you're pulling 300k, you're living in at least an $800k house driving a Lexus, Mercedes, Audi, etc., have kids in private school and so on.

NOT middle class by a LONG shot.

This is true.

[Rain Man]

We know that statistically the median household income in the U.S. is somewhere around $50,000. (http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/...post-recession). We know from cost of living figures that this equates to about $110,000 in Manhattan and perhaps $25,000 in the rural Midwest.

So what is the life of this household like? Are they saving? How often are they going on vacation, and where? Do they buy the basic necessities without worry, or do they skimp? Is their house comfortable for their needs or not? What's their quality of life in terms of cars, phones, TVs, washers, boats, fashion, etc.? Do they have health insurance? How are they doing toward retirement savings? How many paychecks can they miss before it all falls apart?

Next, at what income level (adjusted for local cost of living) do the answers to the above questions fundamentally change? What answers have to change on the upward side to be considered affluent? What answers have to change on the downward side to be considered poor?

It's an interesting discussion.

[HonestChieffan]

Whatever it takes to create class division is good

[DoucheMcCloud]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

#1 doesn't matter what I would call them. They call themselves middle class.
#2 not enough data to make a judgment, but probably middle class in my opinion (which matters not one bit)

I agree with that. I have a friend that routinely earns in excess of $175k a year as a single guy that thought he ws middle class until last month.

When I told him he wasn't.

[DoucheMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Nightfyre

It also must be adjusted for local cost of living. Further, not everyone maintains your spending standard. Many people live well below their means.

My spending standard?

On the contrary: I think that tens of millions more Americans live beyond their means than below it.