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Old 09-17-2012, 04:06 PM  
dirk digler dirk digler is offline
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Romney: 47% of Americans are victims

I guess this maybe the kill shot for his campaign. I know some of you believe you this and won't find a problem with what he said but as a person running for POTUS you probably shouldn't write off 1/2 the country especially in a disparaging way.

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A hidden camera video of Mitt Romney at a fundraiser shows him talking disparagingly of people who will vote for President Obama.

Said Romney: "There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what...These are people who pay no income tax."

He adds: "My job is is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives."
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:39 PM   #691
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swanman View Post
Romney said 47% of Americans don't pay income tax, then proceeded to say "those people" can't be made to take responsibility for their own lives. Combat soldiers are in the 47%. If he is going to toss around that stat as a political prop, he needs to understand exactly what makes up that figure so he doesn't stick his foot down his throat. He is just a complete boob as a politician.
Yeah, no, I think there's a MASSIVE distinction between combat soldiers serving our country not paying income tax and the people Romney was actually referring to.

I'm stunned that anyone would even attempt to link the two, honestly.
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:39 PM   #692
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Furthermore, it doesn't even matter how he said it. It all boils down to him sitting with a bunch of extremely wealthy donors telling them it's their interests he has at heart.

**** that.
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:40 PM   #693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
No, he didn't. He directly linked those who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing and so on WITH people who pay no income tax.
Someone else can probably explain it better to you im sure, but it's been explained over and over again every 5 pages or so in this thread.

You need to figure out what's included in that 47%.

Many of which are in fact working Americans who are not on the government teet, among several other groups.
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:42 PM   #694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Yeah, no, I think there's a MASSIVE distinction between combat soldiers serving our country not paying income tax and the people Romney was actually referring to.

I'm stunned that anyone would even attempt to link the two, honestly.
I'm stunned that you can't figure out that the 47% INCLUDES combat soldiers. And it's not just soldiers.

IT was a stupid foot-in-mouth comment.
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:43 PM   #695
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Okay, this is weird. Based on the following quote, Romney doesn't seem to be referring to such people...

Said Romney: "There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what...These are people who pay no income tax."

What am I missing?
You are missing the next paragraph:

"And-- and-- I mean the president starts off with 48%, 49%, 40-- or he-- he starts off with a huge number. These are people who pay no income tax. 47% of Americans pay no income taxes. So our message of low taxes doesn't connect. And he'll be out there talking about tax cuts for the rich. I mean that's what they sell every-- every four years"

See the easy link in how he creates that 47% group? Like it or not, the 47% is not made up of welfare queens, like he makes it sound in the following paragraph:

"And-- and so my job is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them that they should take personal responsibility and care for for their lives. What I have to do is convince the 5% to 10% in the center that are independents, that are thoughtful, that look at voting one way or the other depending upon in some cases emotion."
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:43 PM   #696
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post


I haven't read the thread, and don't intend to, but you think that Romney was including combat soldiers in that group?
He wasn't thinking in general. He was just spouting off the typical right-wing talking points without ever considering if they are actually valid points.
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:45 PM   #697
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
I'm stunned that you can't figure out that the 47% INCLUDES combat soldiers. And it's not just soldiers.

IT was a stupid foot-in-mouth comment.
Again, anyone who can read, comprehend it and who doesn't have an agenda should be able to understand that the last sentence of the above quote is the key. He was SPECIFICALLY referring to the people who ARE sucking on the government's tit AND don't pay any income tax. I would agree that the 47% was probably to much of generalization, however.
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:47 PM   #698
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Again, anyone who can read, comprehend it and who doesn't have an agenda should be able to understand that the last sentence of the above quote is the key. He was SPECIFICALLY referring to the people who ARE sucking on the government's tit AND don't pay any income tax. I would agree that the 47% was probably to much of generalization, however.
Understand: Not paying an income tax does not = sucking the government's teet.

You need to read the thread.

There are millions of Americans who don't pay an income Tax who don't live off the government. He's insulted those people, whether he meant to or not.

Not sure what's hard to understand about that.
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:48 PM   #699
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swanman View Post
See the easy link in how he creates that 47% group? Like it or not, the 47% is not made up of welfare queens
Not entirely, no, it isn't. But they are a part of it. Again, the goof seems to be that he threw out a percentage, but it's also clear that he was referring to the people on the government tit who ALSO don't pay any income tax.
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:50 PM   #700
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
Understand: Not paying an income tax does not = sucking the government's teet.

You need to read the thread.

There are millions of Americans who don't pay an income Tax who don't live off the government. He's insulted those people, whether he meant to or not.

Not sure what's hard to understand about that.
And he didn't say that not paying an income tax does not = sucking the government's teet. He was complaining about the ones who do BOTH.
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:52 PM   #701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Yeah, no, I think there's a MASSIVE distinction between combat soldiers serving our country not paying income tax and the people Romney was actually referring to.

I'm stunned that anyone would even attempt to link the two, honestly.
People are feigning great stupidity in their attempts to make Romney's remarks something they aren't. What they are is the truth, minus quibbling over some percentage points.

If they aren't feigning, I really feel sorry for them.
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:55 PM   #702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
And he didn't say that not paying an income tax does not = sucking the government's teet. He was complaining about the ones who do BOTH.
This is a difference of interpretation. Problem is he equated the 47% with living off the teet.

He even went so far as to say that 47% won't vote for him because of it. You can cry generalization all you want, but when you're giving your strategy and reasons for it, then it is not a generalization. It is what you accept as true.
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:56 PM   #703
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Again, anyone who can read, comprehend it and who doesn't have an agenda should be able to understand that the last sentence of the above quote is the key. He was SPECIFICALLY referring to the people who ARE sucking on the government's tit AND don't pay any income tax. I would agree that the 47% was probably to much of generalization, however.
46% of people in the US don't pay income tax. So it is just a mere coincidence he said 47%?

I am sure conservatives like Bill Kristol and Rich Lowry can't comprehend it and have an agenda.
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Old 09-19-2012, 02:00 PM   #704
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Diddy View Post
This is a difference of interpretation. Problem is he equated the 47% with living off the teet.

He even went so far as to say that 47% won't vote for him because of it. You can cry generalization all you want, but when you're giving your strategy and reasons for it, then it is not a generalization. It is what you accept as true.
I think it was probably a mistake to use the 47% number. I agree with that, but he was clearly speaking about the people who suck and pay no income taxes (whatever that percentage actually is). And, he's right; those people would never vote for Romney anyway.
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Old 09-19-2012, 02:00 PM   #705
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The truly ****ing hilarious thing is that those who disagree with the 47% as an actual have no leadership from Romney. He hasn't disputed that number.
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