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Old 09-12-2012, 07:33 AM  
El Jefe El Jefe is offline
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US Ambassador in Libya Killed

Crazy times, they said this too in relation with the Cairo uprisal has to do with an American Israeli who made a movie that was anti-muslim. Apparently in was only shown in one hole in the wall movie theatre in Cali, but it hit Youtube hard.

http://gma.yahoo.com/u-s--ambassador...-benghazi.html
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Old 09-17-2012, 03:29 PM   #241
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Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
i've been busy with family for the past few days, what preposterous lie are they peddling now?
Hope all is well with you and yours.
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Old 09-17-2012, 04:27 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by Aries Walker View Post
On Meet the Press, Susan Rice said that their belief is that (and I'm paraphrasing) opportunistic terrorists took advantage of the unrest caused by the protest in Benghazi, quickly assembled, and mounted the attack. She also said that that's the administration's current belief (as of Sunday morning, obviously) and that it is susceptible to whatever the investigations turn up.

Is there a reason to think that it didn't happen this way?
Yes, of course there is. Here are some samples:

On CBS' Face the Nation, Libya's President Mohamed Magariaf said that evidence leaves no doubt that the attacks was pre-planned.

The UK Telegraph cites a Libyan military official in a report that Libya warned the US of pending violence attributable to radical Islamists 3 days before the attack. (Not saying that this was actionable intel).

The UK Independent reports that "American officials" believe the attack was planned and "senior diplomatic sources" who said that the US had "credible information" of potential violence 48 hours before the attack.

None of this proves that these weren't just random acts of spontaneous violence or attacks of opportunity, but there's a lot of smoke billowing from the building behind Fire Chief Rice as she tells us to move along because there's nothing to see here.
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Old 09-17-2012, 04:48 PM   #243
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On the odd chance this hasn’t be discussed. How for the love of God after the hostage crisis we had during the Carter administration could there EVER be an issue where our embassies are not well armed with the instructions to use whatever force up to and including a pig grease flame thrower to defend our people and our territory?

Any person or group of people climbing a wall or storming a gate should be treated as a hostile force intent on murdering our citizens.

If there is time, give them a warning shot, if there is not time or they do not retreat they need to be brutally and ruthlessly shot down.
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Old 09-17-2012, 05:25 PM   #244
Aries Walker Aries Walker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Yes, of course there is. Here are some samples:

On CBS' Face the Nation, Libya's President Mohamed Magariaf said that evidence leaves no doubt that the attacks was pre-planned.

The UK Telegraph cites a Libyan military official in a report that Libya warned the US of pending violence attributable to radical Islamists 3 days before the attack. (Not saying that this was actionable intel).

The UK Independent reports that "American officials" believe the attack was planned and "senior diplomatic sources" who said that the US had "credible information" of potential violence 48 hours before the attack.

None of this proves that these weren't just random acts of spontaneous violence or attacks of opportunity, but there's a lot of smoke billowing from the building behind Fire Chief Rice as she tells us to move along because there's nothing to see here.
See, Vailpass? A perfectly reasonable answer. With links, even.

I suspect the answer lies somewhere in the middle. It doesn't strike me as something that was planned with 9-11 style diligence, but these terrorist were present, and probably weren't being terribly secretive, being in Benghazi and all. The consulate there, even though it wasn't in Tripoli, should have been protected by Marines, at least. I do agree with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FishingRod View Post
On the odd chance this hasn’t be discussed. How for the love of God after the hostage crisis we had during the Carter administration could there EVER be an issue where our embassies are not well armed with the instructions to use whatever force up to and including a pig grease flame thrower to defend our people and our territory?

Any person or group of people climbing a wall or storming a gate should be treated as a hostile force intent on murdering our citizens.

If there is time, give them a warning shot, if there is not time or they do not retreat they need to be brutally and ruthlessly shot down.
That would have led to war with Egypt. That would be bad.
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Old 09-17-2012, 05:28 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by Aries Walker View Post
That would have led to war with Egypt. That would be bad.
So an attack on a U.S. Embassy is not an attack on sovereign U.S. territory? So, just let them take it over like Tehran in the 70's? Sorry, I know that the consequences of protecting our sovereign territory may escalate matters but them attacking our embassy is an act of war. Or, do you not believe that?
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Old 09-17-2012, 05:34 PM   #246
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So an attack on a U.S. Embassy is not an attack on sovereign U.S. territory? So, just let them take it over like Tehran in the 70's? Sorry, I know that the consequences of protecting our sovereign territory may escalate matters but them attacking our embassy is an act of war. Or, do you not believe that?
There are two sides of this issue, those who want to kiss their ass and say gee we are sorry if we offended you. Then there is the side I am on, you **** with us we **** with you...and count on a larger body count on your side if you do~
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Old 09-17-2012, 05:42 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Meanwhile, the administration that you support continues to tell preposterous lie after preposterous lie about whether this was a coordinated attack or not.
I don't support everything the Obama administration does. Every thing I've said or talked about was what I heard in the public domain. This is the kind of thread I need to stay out of.............. slowly backs away.........
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Last edited by BigRedChief; 09-17-2012 at 05:55 PM..
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Old 09-17-2012, 05:44 PM   #248
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There's a big difference: this one was empty. Also, 2012 Egypt is not 1979 Iran; Morsi is not calling for our heads like Khomeini was.

Launching into war because a misled, riled-up mob attacks your embassy is supremely short-sighted. Even if we just tempted war with a large-scale military firefight in downtown Cairo, that would led to increased global anti-American sentiment, destabilization of the Middle East, and even more nations and Islamic moderates siding with, oh, let's say, Al Qaeda, or Iran.

Sure, it's technically an act of war, but war is to be avoided. That's why we have diplomats.
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Old 09-17-2012, 06:03 PM   #249
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Hope all is well with you and yours.
everything's fine, thanks for asking...

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Old 09-17-2012, 06:18 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by Aries Walker View Post
See, Vailpass? A perfectly reasonable answer. With links, even.

I suspect the answer lies somewhere in the middle. It doesn't strike me as something that was planned with 9-11 style diligence, but these terrorist were present, and probably weren't being terribly secretive, being in Benghazi and all. The consulate there, even though it wasn't in Tripoli, should have been protected by Marines, at least. I do agree with that.
I agree that it most likely wasn't an operation planned to the degree of the original 9/11 plot, but it's still pretty ridiculous for the administration to attempt to paint this as an organic reaction to an offensive YouTube movie as opposed to a pre-meditated attack against the US as an expression of opposition to our policies and/or our government's actions.
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Old 09-17-2012, 06:20 PM   #251
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There are two sides of this issue, those who want to kiss their ass and say gee we are sorry if we offended you. Then there is the side I am on, you **** with us we **** with you...and count on a larger body count on your side if you do~
That's what they think too and are doing. Ah, ya' know we bombed their country for cri-sakes!
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Old 09-17-2012, 06:21 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by Aries Walker View Post
There's a big difference: this one was empty. Also, 2012 Egypt is not 1979 Iran; Morsi is not calling for our heads like Khomeini was.

Launching into war because a misled, riled-up mob attacks your embassy is supremely short-sighted. Even if we just tempted war with a large-scale military firefight in downtown Cairo, that would led to increased global anti-American sentiment, destabilization of the Middle East, and even more nations and Islamic moderates siding with, oh, let's say, Al Qaeda, or Iran.

Sure, it's technically an act of war, but war is to be avoided. That's why we have diplomats.
Morsi certainly wasn't calling for heads (that we know of), but his government was caught speaking out of both sides of it's Twitter mouth, expressing sympathy in English while encouraging the demonstrators in Arabic.
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Old 09-17-2012, 06:25 PM   #253
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I see the police wearing brown shirts hauled away the guy who made that video in the middle of the night. Isn't that interesting?
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Old 09-18-2012, 08:37 AM   #254
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See, Vailpass? A perfectly reasonable answer. With links, even.

I suspect the answer lies somewhere in the middle. It doesn't strike me as something that was planned with 9-11 style diligence, but these terrorist were present, and probably weren't being terribly secretive, being in Benghazi and all. The consulate there, even though it wasn't in Tripoli, should have been protected by Marines, at least. I do agree with that.


That would have led to war with Egypt. That would be bad.

I’m actually in favor of a far more isolationist foreign policy than we have however; any attack on the United States (and an attack on our embassy counts) should be repulsed with whatever force is needed and maybe a little more than is needed..

The host country has the responsibility of keeping mobs from attacking in the first place. Should they be negligent, it is unacceptable to ask our people not to defend their selves. After the embarrassment of the hostage situation with Iran this should have been our public policy.
If we allow an angry mob to attack the Egyptian embassy in the United States I would expect them to defend their people as well.
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Old 09-21-2012, 07:36 PM   #255
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30,000 Libyans March on Militia Headquarters

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BENGHAZI, Libya—Tens of thousands of Libyans marched to the gates of one of the country's strongest armed Islamic extremist groups, as the attack that killed four Americans sparked a public backlash against militias that defy the country's new, post-Col. Moammar Gadhafi leadership.

Some 30,000 people filled a broad boulevard as they marched along a lake in central Benghazi on Friday to the gates of the headquarters of Ansar al-Sharia, the group suspected of organizing the attack on the U.S. consulate.

"No, no, to militias," the crowd chanted, They carried banners and signs demanding that militias disband and that the government build up police to take their place in keeping security.

"Benghazi is in a trap," signs read. "Where is the army, where is the police?"

The march was the biggest seen in Benghazi, Libya's second largest city and home to 1 million people, since the fall of Gadhafi in August 2011.

For many Libyans, last week's attack on the U.S. Consulate in the eastern city of Benghazi was the last straw with one of the biggest problems Libya has faced since Gadhafi's ouster and death—the multiple mini-armies that with their arsenals of machine guns and rocket-propelled grenades are stronger than the regular armed forces and police.

The militias, a legacy of the ragtag popular forces that fought Gadhafi's regime, tout themselves as protectors of Libya's revolution, providing security where police cannot. But many say they act like gangs, detaining and intimidating rivals and carrying out killings. Militias made up of Islamic radicals are notorious for attacks on Muslims who don't abide by their hard-line ideology. Officials and witnesses say fighters from one Islamic militia, Ansar al-Sharia, led the Sept. 11 attack on the Benghazi consulate that killed U.S. Ambassador Christopher Stevens and three other Americans.

Other signs mourned the killing of Ambassador Stevens, reading, "The ambassador was Libya's friend" and "Libya lost a friend." Military helicopters and fighter jets flew overhead, and police mingled in the crowd, buoyed by the support of the protesters.

Several thousand Ansar al-Sharia supporters lined up in front of their headquarters in the face of the crowd, waving black and white banners. There were some small scuffles, but mostly the two sides mingled and held discussions in the square.

The unprecedented public backlash comes in part in frustration with the interim government, which has been unable to rein in the armed factions. Many say that officials' attempts to co-opt fighters by paying them have only fueled the growth of militias without bringing them under state control or integrating them into the regular forces.

Residents of another main eastern city, Darna, have also begun to stand up against Ansar al-Shariah and other militias.

The anti-militia fervor in Darna is notable because the city, in the mountains along the Mediterranean coast north of Benghazi, has long had a reputation as a stronghold for Islamic extremists. During the Gadhafi era, it was the hotbed of a deadly Islamist insurgency against his regime. A significant number of the Libyan jihadists who traveled to Afghanistan and Iraq during recent wars came from Darna. During the revolt against him last year, Gadhafi's regime warned that Darna would declare itself an Islamic Emirate and ally itself with al Qaeda.

But now, the residents are lashing out against Ansar al-Sharia, the main Islamic extremist group in the city.

"The killing of the ambassador blew up the situation. It was disastrous," said Ayoub al-Shedwi, a young bearded Muslim preacher in Darna who says he has received multiple death threats because has spoken out against militias on a radio show he hosts. "We felt that the revolution is going in vain."

Al-Shedwi said some were afraid that if they don't act to rein them in, the U.S. will strike against the militias, pushing people to support the gunmen.

Leaders of tribes, which are the strongest social force in eastern Libya, have come forward to demand that the militias disband. Tribal leaders in Benghazi and Darna announced this week that members of their tribes who are militiamen will no longer have their protection in the face of anti-militia protests. That means the tribe won't avenge them if they are killed.

Activists and residents have held a sit-in for the past eight days outside Darna's Sahaba Mosque, calling on tribes to put an end to the "state of terrorism" created by the militias. At the city's main hotel, The Jewel of Darna, tribal figures, activists, local officials and lawmakers have been meeting in recent days to come up with a plan.

"Until when the tribes will remain silent," cried a bearded young man standing on a podium at one such meeting Thursday. "The militias don't recognize the state. The state is pampering them but this isn't working anymore. You must act right now." Elders in traditional Libyan white robes stood up and shouted in support.
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