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Old 09-23-2012, 08:06 AM  
mlyonsd mlyonsd is online now
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Just saw my first Obama non-attack ad

I live near Iowa and watch their local stations so I've seen a lot of ads.

I finally saw an Obama ad that didn't attack Romney, instead it focused on how bad things were when Obama came to office and how Obama is leading us to the promised land. Forward.

Anyway, one line in the ad states Obama will continue to support (throw your tax dollars) towards green energy.

WTF? Didn't we already learn this lesson? If green energy is going to succeed it only should in the open market.

Obama's elitist policies and call to kill the coal industry should be reason enough for him not to be re-elected. We can't kill our cheapest form of energy and expect to compete in the global economy.

I find it amazing some are still buying his snake oil.
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Old 09-23-2012, 06:09 PM   #31
ChiefaRoo ChiefaRoo is offline
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So you support 0 government investment in green technology?

We'll just wait around for the Chinese to control every aspect of the green sector (current on pace to kick everyone's ass in solar) and then hand more money over to them. Step two = bitching about the Chinese controlling the green sector and wondering why we didn't do more.
China has a parasitic economy that is export driven. If they are going to dominate any market it's because the barrier to entry is low and they can produce average to low quality products in volume. Solar is not high tech. It's a big fairy tail to think it is. If some genius scientist can figure out how to make it much more efficient then that might change the equation but until then it's just a function of low tech labor and economies of scale.

To put it another way. We aren't ceding the cheap sunglasses market eventhough you can buy two pair of Ray Ban knockoffs in Shanghai for $3 (Which I've done).
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Old 09-23-2012, 06:19 PM   #32
ChiefaRoo ChiefaRoo is offline
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Originally Posted by tredadda View Post
Slow down there hero.

1. Considering fossil fuels are FINITE meaning there is only a limited amount of them, what will replace them if not green energy?

2. When did I ever mention even ONCE in the year and a half I have been on this board that I was cool with Obama killing coal?

3. When should we invest in a replacement for fossil fuels? Should we do it now when we still have enough to meet our needs or should we scramble at the last second when they are almost gone and thusly have no choice?
We have over two hundred years of coal reserves.
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Old 09-23-2012, 06:24 PM   #33
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Old 09-23-2012, 06:43 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by ChiefaRoo View Post
We have over two hundred years of coal reserves.
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Old 09-23-2012, 06:52 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by LiveSteam View Post
Made in China? A History of Reverse Engineering
Great story Bro

http://manglermuldoon.blogspot.com/2...f-reverse.html
I'm not quite sure what you're talking about, but I'm fairly sure I'm not going to read a blog. What I recommended was googling and finding the infinite amount of hits that talk about Chinese and the green energy market.
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Old 09-23-2012, 07:11 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by J Diddy View Post
I'm not quite sure what you're talking about, but I'm fairly sure I'm not going to read a blog. What I recommended was googling and finding the infinite amount of hits that talk about Chinese and the green energy market.
They are definitely investing in green energy but it's hard to come by specifics other than the useless things like ramping up production of soon to be outdated solar panels and the like. Until China proves in can actually INNOVATE, I am not one bit concerned. India on the other hand is a different story.

The smart play is to invest heavily in the tech without wasting money on production until it makes sense. Right now it makes little to no sense without massive unreasonable subsidies COMBINED with penalties on other industries. That is just plain STUPID. Obama and his people should be CRUCIFIED for the sheer stupidity of our current approach.
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Old 09-23-2012, 07:11 PM   #37
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So many commercial success have come about as a result of government directive.
Better fuel economy in cars being one.
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Old 09-23-2012, 07:21 PM   #38
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Better fuel economy in cars being one.
When GM goes broke again, which it will, I might try to get a deal on one of those Volt go carts~
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Old 09-23-2012, 07:35 PM   #39
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They are definitely investing in green energy but it's hard to come by specifics other than the useless things like ramping up production of soon to be outdated solar panels and the like. Until China proves in can actually INNOVATE, I am not one bit concerned. India on the other hand is a different story.

The smart play is to invest heavily in the tech without wasting money on production until it makes sense. Right now it makes little to no sense without massive unreasonable subsidies COMBINED with penalties on other industries. That is just plain STUPID. Obama and his people should be CRUCIFIED for the sheer stupidity of our current approach.
Correct .. Obama has got to go.
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Old 09-23-2012, 07:41 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by bsp4444 View Post
Better fuel economy in cars being one.
Better fuel economy came from Japan's market innovation, not government insistence.
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Old 09-23-2012, 07:44 PM   #41
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Coal usage is going down. It's just too expensive to control even the conventional pollutants that protect human health. It will continue to be used because of all the existing capital inventory, but fewer and fewer new coal plants are going to be constructed. Natural gas is displacing some of its share because it is cleaner and cheaper. Nuclear has extremely high capital costs so utilities are slow to bear that risk. Renewables are a significant fraction of electrical generating capacity even now and will continue to be an important component. The key is to have a diverse generating portfolio so that the utilities can respond effectively to changing conditions. So coal will be important, but not as much as in the past.
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:19 PM   #42
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Old 09-23-2012, 10:28 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post
I live near Iowa and watch their local stations so I've seen a lot of ads.

I finally saw an Obama ad that didn't attack Romney, instead it focused on how bad things were when Obama came to office and how Obama is leading us to the promised land. Forward.

Anyway, one line in the ad states Obama will continue to support (throw your tax dollars) towards green energy.

WTF? Didn't we already learn this lesson? If green energy is going to succeed it only should in the open market.

Obama's elitist policies and call to kill the coal industry should be reason enough for him not to be re-elected. We can't kill our cheapest form of energy and expect to compete in the global economy.

I find it amazing some are still buying his snake oil.
i could be mistaken but i think i've read somewhere that natural gas is becoming cheaper than coal for generating electricity...

and we've been discovering shit tons of gas in all kinds of places, even in ohio of all places...
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Old 09-23-2012, 10:35 PM   #44
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ooops, seedy already covered this...
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Old 09-23-2012, 11:17 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
i could be mistaken but i think i've read somewhere that natural gas is becoming cheaper than coal for generating electricity...

and we've been discovering shit tons of gas in all kinds of places, even in ohio of all places...
..and once again Obama's administration has made it hard on them to wade through a sea of restrictive regulations. Yes, Obama has talked a good game about natural gas but he has done jack shit in reality except to block and over regulate development.

Don't get me wrong, coal, oil, natural gas... all are dead ends that we will need to move away from. No one can deny that. I just don't support the completely unnatural approach of government mandates to do so.

Here is where my libertarian friends will hate me... I DO support government funding for research though. I'd love for private companies to fund all the research that is needed but this is too important an issue (especially regarding national security) to leave to any kind of chance. Good news: DARPA and the US Navy have been working in these fields for years. Bad news: they are woefully underfunded.
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