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Old 09-25-2012, 10:33 AM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Voting laws may deter 10 million Hispanics, report says

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...2_story_1.html

Voting laws may deter 10 million Hispanics, report says
By Krissah Thompson
Published: September 22

Civil rights groups are warning that as many as 10 million Hispanics may be deterred from casting ballots because of changes to voting laws.

In a report to be released Monday, the civil rights group Advancement Project cites the potential impact of newly restrictive photo identification laws, proof-of-citizenship requirements and late efforts in a few states to remove noncitizens from the voter rolls.

“It has the impact of scaring people and reminding them of [immigration] raids and other kinds of law enforcement that have been targeted toward these communities,” said Penda D. Hair, a co-director of the Advancement Project, part of a coalition of liberal groups that oppose the new voting laws.

Proponents of the efforts to tighten voting laws, including several secretaries of state, say they want to root out voter fraud and are not targeting particular demographic groups.

“The fact is our office only compared our voter rolls against DMV records where individuals showed proof of non-citizenship,” Rich Coolidge, spokesman for the Colorado secretary of state’s office, said in an e-mail. “To insinuate anything else is absolutely false and reckless. Unfortunately, some partisan groups attempt to leverage this effort for their own political gain.”

In-person voting fraud is rare, studies have shown, but there have been recent cases of absentee ballot fraud, and small numbers of noncitizens are registered to vote. In Colorado, the secretary of state’s office estimated last year that as many as 11,000 noncitizens were registered to vote. But after checking a federal immigration database, the state announced this month that 141 noncitizens were registered and as few as 35 had cast ballots.

Several of the states with more restrictive laws and procedures, such as Colorado, have large Hispanic populations. As the deadline to register voters approaches in many states, the Advancement Project’s report warns that the new rules are working against efforts to register Hispanics, the nation’s fastest-growing demographic.

Both President Obama and Republican nominee Mitt Romney are working hard to appeal to Hispanics, who could be key to winning important swing states if they turn out to vote in large numbers.

Advocacy groups have been trying for several years to increase the number of Latinos who vote. In 2010, 6.3 million Latinos who were eligible to vote reported that they were unregistered and 10.8 million said they did not vote, according to census figures cited by the report.

“At the end of the day, voting should be free, fair and accessible, and these barriers are standing in the way of an increasing demographic in this country,” said Judith A. Browne-Dianis, a co-director of the Advancement Project.

A dozen state legislatures passed rules last year requiring voters to present state-issued photo IDs, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures, although in four states the laws were vetoed by Democratic governors.

Pennsylvania’s governor signed a voter ID bill in March that is still being litigated, with opponents presenting studies showing that blacks, Hispanics and others in urban areas are less likely to have the required ID.

In addition, 16 states — including Colorado, Florida and New Mexico — have attempted to “purge” noncitizens from registration lists. The Advancement Project cited examples of purges incorrectly flagging the names of naturalized citizens, putting them at risk for having their voter registration invalidated.

Florida halted an effort to remove noncitizens from lists when it became known that the database used by the state to check citizenship was out of date.

Denver resident Veronica Figoli, who immigrated from Venezuela in 1999, was among the legally registered voters in Colorado whose name was flagged for removal from voter rolls. The letter that she received said it was “extremely important” that she affirm her citizenship or withdraw from the voter rolls, which she said made her feel like a “second-class citizen.”

“To get this letter was kind of insulting,” said Figoli, who became a citizen in 2011 after what she said was a costly and stressful process. “There are so many steps and it is so confusing, and it’s expensive. And you are dealing with government and that makes you uncomfortable.” When she got the letter, she said, “I questioned myself.”

Figoli returned the required paperwork but said that others might be more fearful.

“I have a friend who said, ‘I wouldn’t do anything. . . . What if they revoke my citizenship?’ ” Figoli said. “The fear is there.”

Melinda Aguirre, who was born in Denver, also received a letter in English and Spanish questioning her citizenship. “I don’t even speak Spanish,” she said. “It’s just a bunch of [bull] what they are doing with certain people. My mom didn’t get this letter. My brother didn’t get this letter. Their last name is Roybal. But the Aguirres did.”

John Fund, a conservative columnist and author of “Stealing Elections: How Voter Fraud Threatens Our Democracy,” said recent polls show that advocates of cleaning up the voter rolls have public opinion on their side and that they are being unfairly accused of racism. “It is very unfortunate that this issue has been used by groups who want to yell racism in a crowded political theater,” Fund said. “This is not the way to debate these issues.”

Still, the National Council of La Raza, which has been working with a network of groups to register Hispanic voters, was one of a dozen civil rights groups that said last week that voting rights are in a “state of emergency.”

“Part of our frustration is that the debate over the voter integrity process has become a polarized thing,” said Clarissa Martinez De Castro, the group’s director of immigration and national campaigns. “It’s almost like voters have become guilty until proven innocent.”

Ana Navarro, a Republican campaign consultant in Florida, said she doesn’t expect Hispanics there to be dissuaded from registering or voting.

“I don’t get the sense that the average voter is out there ready to set their hair on fire over the voting law changes,” she said in an e-mail. “Political campaigns are in full swing in Florida and there’s just too many substantive issues like the economy, high unemployment, Medicare, and housing, that Floridians are worried about. . . . Ready or not, whether you like or dislike the changes to the process, voting is upon us.”

Floridians start getting absentee ballots in a couple of weeks, and in most states, voter registration closes 30 days before the election.
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Old 09-25-2012, 03:52 PM   #91
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Direckshun, your position on this issue is just completely indefensible.

The legitimacy of our elections is one of the most important things to safeguard in our country, and one of the primary requirements for a legitimate election is allowing only those who can vote, to vote.

It doesn't matter if its rare, it doesn't matter if you think Republicans are pushing it for partisan political reasons, and it doesn't matter if they almost never influence the outcome of an election, it doesn't freaking matter. It is incredibly easy to get an ID, and it is our civic duty to prove we are eligible to vote if asked.

Serial killers are also one of the rarest kinds of murderers out there, and logically we shouldn't devote more resources to catching them than any other kind of murder, but the people become incredibly frightened and then angry if its not a top priority. Similarly, it is greatly offensive to a lot of people, logic aside, to think that it can be very easy to vote when you are not a citizen.

In this case, it just so happens that attempting to ensure that voters are legally able to vote may impact your side. Tough luck, you do not have any moral legitimacy in opposing these voter ID and verification laws.

If you don't like it, cheer up: the Republicans are doomed anyway (until they adapt and shift to the left) due to demographics. If not now, then surely in a decade or two when whites are no longer a majority racial group
The GOP is changing the rules for no justifiable reason. Our democracy does not weight the votes of people based on their income, race or age.

What the GOP really means to do is to say that an older, or less educated or less wealthy, or less white person's vote should not have equal weight.

The primary motivation for these laws is hoped-for electoral advantage. The GOP is paternalistically determining that the more each person's vote is treated as equal, the less likely the GOP's chances are of winning an election.

There is a difference between right and wrong. These laws are wrong and motivated by bad will. When people are intentionally doing wrong about something fundamental to our democracy it will catch up to them.

Chances are some loyal GOP voters are going to get humiliated at their polling places when they show up to vote and these GOP lawmakers may have to explain to those humiliated loyal GOP voters why they could not vote this election when they have voted so many times before.

Maybe you should work at the polls this year and when some old lady who has voted in the last several elections is turned away you can get in her face and talk about how the genuine humiliation she feels has no moral legitimacy.

Making unnecessary changes to the rules because you expect to lose under the already fair rules is called cheating.
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Old 09-25-2012, 03:57 PM   #92
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Old 09-25-2012, 04:09 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
The study: http://www.advancementproject.org/re...sement-in-2012

Interactive map of actual cases of voter fraud (virtually none): http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...er_jcr:content

Voter ID laws can only fight one kind of fraud: in person voter fraud. It's perhaps the rarest forms of fraud:

All this tripe is from left leaning propagandist websites and groups and therefore is declared illegitimate. It should not be considered as part of this conversation or any other going forward. Nice try you silly twat...

The Pennsylvania House of Representatives Speaker admits this is a political ploy:



This is straight-up voter suppression by the Republican Party.
All this tripe is from left leaning propagandist websites and groups and therefore is declared illegitimate. It should not be considered as part of this conversation or any other going forward. Nice try you silly twat...
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Old 09-25-2012, 04:16 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by J Diddy View Post
I've seen that clip and I know their motivations. Truth being told, if they are provided a free id so that they can vote, I don't know what the problem is. If they are able to get ID free of charge so they can vote then I don't feel this on the Government, but rather on those who choose not to exercise their right. However, if they cannot provide ID"S to all who need them in time then it shouldn't be allowed.
Because it's unnecessary.

If you are going to create another hoop to jump through in order for a citizen to exercise their most basic right in a democracy, you better have a damn good reason.

It's nice that the IDs will be free and everything, but the onus is still on the voter to act.
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Old 09-25-2012, 04:17 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by BWillie007 View Post
Yes, requiring people to confirm they are US citizens to vote is racist. Why on EARTH would you NOT verify someone's ID that is going to vote. It makes no sense to me why you would this practice is not ALREADY implemented EVERYWHERE.
Because that is already implemented.

Voter ID is an unnecessary additional step that will accomplish close to nothing for the sole purpose of disenfranchising a shit ton of voters the GOP doesn't like.
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Old 09-25-2012, 04:22 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Because it's unnecessary.

If you are going to create another hoop to jump through in order for a citizen to exercise their most basic right in a democracy, you better have a damn good reason.

It's nice that the IDs will be free and everything, but the onus is still on the voter to act.
This is the bullshit you keep promoting that I take issue with. You don't KNOW it is unnecessary because we don't have adequate cheks in place to catch it. You BELIEVE it doesn't happen very often... others believe it DOES. So, you say.. "but but but the burden is on YOU!!!" Well, no, I can PROVE that the system is OPEN to abuse and fraud can easily occur undetected. THAT ALONE is enough to warrant fixing it. Now the burden is on you to prove it isn't occurring. What? You can't? Why not? Oh.. maybe because we don't have systems in place like a voter ID.
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Old 09-25-2012, 04:24 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
Direckshun, your position on this issue is just completely indefensible.

The legitimacy of our elections is one of the most important things to safeguard in our country, and one of the primary requirements for a legitimate election is allowing only those who can vote, to vote.

It doesn't matter if its rare, it doesn't matter if you think Republicans are pushing it for partisan political reasons, and it doesn't matter if they almost never influence the outcome of an election, it doesn't freaking matter. It is incredibly easy to get an ID, and it is our civic duty to prove we are eligible to vote if asked.

Serial killers are also one of the rarest kinds of murderers out there, and logically we shouldn't devote more resources to catching them than any other kind of murder, but the people become incredibly frightened and then angry if its not a top priority. Similarly, it is greatly offensive to a lot of people, logic aside, to think that it can be very easy to vote when you are not a citizen.

In this case, it just so happens that attempting to ensure that voters are legally able to vote may impact your side. Tough luck, you do not have any moral legitimacy in opposing these voter ID and verification laws.

If you don't like it, cheer up: the Republicans are doomed anyway (until they adapt and shift to the left) due to demographics. If not now, then surely in a decade or two when whites are no longer a majority racial group
Voters are already legally cleared as citizens to vote. Fraud is at or near zero.

The rarest kind of voter fraud is voter impersonation. So rare, that 200+ cases of other kinds of voter fraud occur for every recorded instance of voter impersonation. Which is already mind-bogglingly rare.

The Pennsylvania GOP already admitted this was a partisan move to address a problem that is a rounding error's rounding error, with a solution that wouldn't have stopped any of their examples of voter fraud.

In order for voter impersonation to affect even a close election, it would have to occur on a widespread conspiracy scale not seen in modern history, and would conceivably be rendered impossible by the safeguards we already have in place.

My moral ground, high or not, is the same as yours. The right for my voice to be heard as an American is sacred.

So I'll take the solution that says we'll allow a shit ton of voters to continue successfully voting the way they've been without having to reasonably worry about voter fraud, over your solution which says let's make all these folks jump through an unnecessary step for no useful purpose that will almost certainly disenfranchise tons of tax paying Americans.
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Old 09-25-2012, 04:27 PM   #98
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Old 09-25-2012, 04:28 PM   #99
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This is the bullshit you keep promoting that I take issue with. You don't KNOW it is unnecessary because we don't have adequate cheks in place to catch it. You BELIEVE it doesn't happen very often... others believe it DOES. So, you say.. "but but but the burden is on YOU!!!" Well, no, I can PROVE that the system is OPEN to abuse and fraud can easily occur undetected. THAT ALONE is enough to warrant fixing it. Now the burden is on you to prove it isn't occurring. What? You can't? Why not? Oh.. maybe because we don't have systems in place like a voter ID.
200+ cases of other kinds of voter fraud occur for every recorded instance of voter impersonation. Which is already mind-bogglingly rare.

The Pennsylvania GOP already admitted this was a partisan move to address a problem that is a rounding error's rounding error, with a solution that wouldn't have stopped any of their examples of voter fraud.
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Old 09-25-2012, 04:30 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Because it's unnecessary.

If you are going to create another hoop to jump through in order for a citizen to exercise their most basic right in a democracy, you better have a damn good reason.

It's nice that the IDs will be free and everything, but the onus is still on the voter to act.
Get the **** out of here with this.
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Old 09-25-2012, 04:32 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...2_story_1.html

Voting laws may deter 10 million Hispanics, report says
By Krissah Thompson
Published: September 22

Civil rights groups are warning that as many as 10 million Hispanics may be deterred from casting ballots because of changes to voting laws.

In a report to be released Monday, the civil rights group Advancement Project cites the potential impact of newly restrictive photo identification laws, proof-of-citizenship requirements and late efforts in a few states to remove noncitizens from the voter rolls.

“It has the impact of scaring people and reminding them of [immigration] raids and other kinds of law enforcement that have been targeted toward these communities,” said Penda D. Hair, a co-director of the Advancement Project, part of a coalition of liberal groups that oppose the new voting laws.

Proponents of the efforts to tighten voting laws, including several secretaries of state, say they want to root out voter fraud and are not targeting particular demographic groups.

“The fact is our office only compared our voter rolls against DMV records where individuals showed proof of non-citizenship,” Rich Coolidge, spokesman for the Colorado secretary of state’s office, said in an e-mail. “To insinuate anything else is absolutely false and reckless. Unfortunately, some partisan groups attempt to leverage this effort for their own political gain.”

In-person voting fraud is rare, studies have shown, but there have been recent cases of absentee ballot fraud, and small numbers of noncitizens are registered to vote. In Colorado, the secretary of state’s office estimated last year that as many as 11,000 noncitizens were registered to vote. But after checking a federal immigration database, the state announced this month that 141 noncitizens were registered and as few as 35 had cast ballots.

Several of the states with more restrictive laws and procedures, such as Colorado, have large Hispanic populations. As the deadline to register voters approaches in many states, the Advancement Project’s report warns that the new rules are working against efforts to register Hispanics, the nation’s fastest-growing demographic.

Both President Obama and Republican nominee Mitt Romney are working hard to appeal to Hispanics, who could be key to winning important swing states if they turn out to vote in large numbers.

Advocacy groups have been trying for several years to increase the number of Latinos who vote. In 2010, 6.3 million Latinos who were eligible to vote reported that they were unregistered and 10.8 million said they did not vote, according to census figures cited by the report.

“At the end of the day, voting should be free, fair and accessible, and these barriers are standing in the way of an increasing demographic in this country,” said Judith A. Browne-Dianis, a co-director of the Advancement Project.

A dozen state legislatures passed rules last year requiring voters to present state-issued photo IDs, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures, although in four states the laws were vetoed by Democratic governors.

Pennsylvania’s governor signed a voter ID bill in March that is still being litigated, with opponents presenting studies showing that blacks, Hispanics and others in urban areas are less likely to have the required ID.

In addition, 16 states — including Colorado, Florida and New Mexico — have attempted to “purge” noncitizens from registration lists. The Advancement Project cited examples of purges incorrectly flagging the names of naturalized citizens, putting them at risk for having their voter registration invalidated.

Florida halted an effort to remove noncitizens from lists when it became known that the database used by the state to check citizenship was out of date.

Denver resident Veronica Figoli, who immigrated from Venezuela in 1999, was among the legally registered voters in Colorado whose name was flagged for removal from voter rolls. The letter that she received said it was “extremely important” that she affirm her citizenship or withdraw from the voter rolls, which she said made her feel like a “second-class citizen.”

“To get this letter was kind of insulting,” said Figoli, who became a citizen in 2011 after what she said was a costly and stressful process. “There are so many steps and it is so confusing, and it’s expensive. And you are dealing with government and that makes you uncomfortable.” When she got the letter, she said, “I questioned myself.”

Figoli returned the required paperwork but said that others might be more fearful.

“I have a friend who said, ‘I wouldn’t do anything. . . . What if they revoke my citizenship?’ ” Figoli said. “The fear is there.”

Melinda Aguirre, who was born in Denver, also received a letter in English and Spanish questioning her citizenship. “I don’t even speak Spanish,” she said. “It’s just a bunch of [bull] what they are doing with certain people. My mom didn’t get this letter. My brother didn’t get this letter. Their last name is Roybal. But the Aguirres did.”

John Fund, a conservative columnist and author of “Stealing Elections: How Voter Fraud Threatens Our Democracy,” said recent polls show that advocates of cleaning up the voter rolls have public opinion on their side and that they are being unfairly accused of racism. “It is very unfortunate that this issue has been used by groups who want to yell racism in a crowded political theater,” Fund said. “This is not the way to debate these issues.”

Still, the National Council of La Raza, which has been working with a network of groups to register Hispanic voters, was one of a dozen civil rights groups that said last week that voting rights are in a “state of emergency.”

“Part of our frustration is that the debate over the voter integrity process has become a polarized thing,” said Clarissa Martinez De Castro, the group’s director of immigration and national campaigns. “It’s almost like voters have become guilty until proven innocent.”

Ana Navarro, a Republican campaign consultant in Florida, said she doesn’t expect Hispanics there to be dissuaded from registering or voting.

“I don’t get the sense that the average voter is out there ready to set their hair on fire over the voting law changes,” she said in an e-mail. “Political campaigns are in full swing in Florida and there’s just too many substantive issues like the economy, high unemployment, Medicare, and housing, that Floridians are worried about. . . . Ready or not, whether you like or dislike the changes to the process, voting is upon us.”

Floridians start getting absentee ballots in a couple of weeks, and in most states, voter registration closes 30 days before the election.
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Old 09-25-2012, 04:37 PM   #102
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Direckshun, what do you think is a sufficient requirement for one to be able to vote?
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Old 09-25-2012, 04:38 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Because that is already implemented.

Voter ID is an unnecessary additional step that will accomplish close to nothing for the sole purpose of disenfranchising a shit ton of voters the GOP doesn't like.
If you are so lazy that you would rather be "disenfranchised" than take the time to get an I.D., then you would probably not have voted in the first place.

Isn't requiring registration an additional step? Why require registration? Why can't I just show up and vote? Why put that extra burden on me to actually take the time to register?

Heck, why should I even have to go to vote? That requires me to take the time to leave my house. Why can't I just call in the vote? Why don't the polls come to me? After all, I shouldn't have to make any effort whatsover. It's my right!
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Old 09-25-2012, 04:40 PM   #104
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A possibly interesting fact about these voter ID laws is that the SCOTUS has been, according to most observers, primed to declare that the section of the Voting Rights Act that requires automatic DOJ review and approval for changes to voting laws in certain states determined to have a prior history of disenfranchisement is no longer needed since so many years have passed since there were intentionally discriminatory voting laws and election rules.

The lawsuits regarding these Voter ID laws give the judges hearing the challenges the opportunity to make factual findings that the GOP lawmakers had discriminatory intent when passing these laws. I think that is a real possibility in the South Carolina case since "smoking gun" e-mails and testimony is in the record before that court.

That would be very interesting and ironic if it turns out that the GOP's overreaching on these voter ID laws for obviously discriminatory motivations ends up disrupting the conservative justice's planned direction on the Voting Rights Act. It would be hard to say that no discrimination has happened in 50 years when federal judges hearing evidence make factual findings that we have present day case(s) of intentionally discriminatory disenfranchisement.
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Old 09-25-2012, 04:41 PM   #105
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Direckshun, what do you think is a sufficient requirement for one to be able to vote?
I'm comfortable with our current tapestry of requirements. It's been reliable and has resulted in nearly zero national contests contested due to fraud in modern political history.
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