Home Mail MemberMap Chat (0) Wallpapers
Go Back   ChiefsPlanet > The Lounge > D.C.
Reload this Page Elections Why I'm Struggling with the Idea of Voting for Romney
Register FAQDonate Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Reply
Page 2 of 6 1 2 3456
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-27-2012, 08:22 AM  
Amnorix Amnorix is offline
In BB I trust
 
Amnorix's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Boston, Mass.
Casino cash: $196137
Why I'm Struggling with the Idea of Voting for Romney
I'll say it -- I like him personally and I like him politically. I think he's smart and can be an effective leader. There are things I like about Obama, but things I dislike. As our deficit/debt balloons, I put increasing importance in reining it in.

But when the test comes, Republicans CONSISTENTLY ignore the deficit and instead focus their attention on social issues -- which are diametrically opposed to my positions on such issues.

This article well summarizes why I find it hard to vote for Romney. I'm still undecided, FWIW.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/26/opinio...html?hpt=hp_t2
Posts: 31,112
Amnorix 's phone was tapped by Scott *****.Amnorix 's phone was tapped by Scott *****.Amnorix 's phone was tapped by Scott *****.Amnorix 's phone was tapped by Scott *****.Amnorix 's phone was tapped by Scott *****.Amnorix 's phone was tapped by Scott *****.Amnorix 's phone was tapped by Scott *****.Amnorix 's phone was tapped by Scott *****.Amnorix 's phone was tapped by Scott *****.Amnorix 's phone was tapped by Scott *****.Amnorix 's phone was tapped by Scott *****.
   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2012, 09:09 AM   #16
patteeu patteeu is offline
The 23rd Pillar
 
patteeu's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Casino cash: $417180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
You can argue Obama's "flip flops" on things like Guantanamo Bay, but I'd suggest it's more idealism colliding with reality once additional facts are discovered.

Romney has taken 180 degree turns for simple political expediencies sake. MULTIPLE times. Going from pro choice to anti abortion, going from RomneyCare to bucking ObamaCare to waffling on ObamaCare, the list is pretty endless. Seriously, there's no comparison.
This isn't really true. Romney went from pro-choice to anti-abortion when he was still a Massachusetts politician and that can't be politically expedient. Romney's position on Obamacare hasn't changed from "bucking" to "waffling". He's been opposed to Obamacare but in favor of some of the reforms in Obamacare all along.

On the other hand, you can't tell me that closing Gitmo (and the headaches that would have created) or holding high profile terror trials in the heart of NYC would have ended up being popular for Obama.
__________________


Obamacare’s fix for an American health care system that the federal government long ago broke, is to give the federal government far more power over American health care; that its solution to escalating health costs is to mandate greater health benefits (and, hence, higher costs); and that its solution to the pricey overreliance on pre-paid health plans — offered by insurance companies in lieu of real insurance — is to have the government require Americans to buy those pre-paid health plans under penalty of law.
Posts: 67,221
patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.
   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2012, 09:39 AM   #17
J Diddy J Diddy is offline
Angel on my shoulder
 
J Diddy's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: The Pitt State baby
Casino cash: $122332
Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Republicans rarely do anything but give lip service to social issues. I don't know how that can be a serious concern for you in a POTUS election. Let's look at a few of them:

1. Abortion - The only impact Romney would have on abortion is that he might get the chance to appoint a SCOTUS Justice or two who might tip the balance of the court and lead to a reversal of Roe v Wade. You have to be pretty pro-abortion to be concerned about letting the issue of abortion being returned to the states. There's not a chance that Massachusetts is going to ban abortions and it's pretty unlikely that more than a handful of states would ban them completely (although several would probably impose restrictions like parental notification or limits on how late in the term an abortion can take place).

2. Gays in the military - Romney could re-impose DADT, but I seriously doubt that he'd do it. By all accounts, repeal of DADT hasn't led to any significant problems.

3. Gay marriage - Romney will have no impact on this. We are not going to have a federal amendment banning it.

4. Marijuana - Obama hasn't been much of a states' rights advocate on this issue. Romney won't be any worse and conceivably could be better (but I doubt it).

5. General - Romney might cut government funding for things like abortions in the third world and fetal stem cell research, but given the need to trim/slash the budget anyway, shouldn't these things be among the first to go anyway?

I'm not on board with most of the social conservatism of the GOP, but that's never a consideration for me because the degree to which they do anything along these lines, it's pretty inconsequential anyway.

Your more legitimate concern is that the GOP won't really address the deficit as aggressively as they should. But given that taking a gamble on Romney is a far better bet than jumping back in bed with the Deficit-Exploder-in-Chief, I don't see why this fear should stand in your way.
1. Pro-abortion and pro-choice are two separate things. Despite the quick lip service you gave to it, it is a big issue. Not something that you make sound like is highly unlikely.

2. He could but he might not.--Great argument

3. Despite whether or not it happens is not the point. He supports a ban on gay marriage--that's his position. You vote for people on where their position is not on probability of outcome to spite that position.

4. I would agree with you there.

5. Stem cell research is a big thing. It needs to be advanced not cut.

I love how you say that his more legitimate concern is the deficit. Like you have any kind of authority on the matter to tell him what his concerns are.
Posts: 22,645
J Diddy has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.J Diddy has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.J Diddy has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.J Diddy has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.J Diddy has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.J Diddy has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.J Diddy has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.J Diddy has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.J Diddy has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.J Diddy has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.J Diddy has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.
   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2012, 09:51 AM   #18
The Rick The Rick is offline
Veteran
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Casino cash: $46319
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC native View Post
Definitely not the one who is insisting on more give aways to the top earners.
Who told you that? Obama?
Posts: 2,183
The Rick must have mowed badgirl's lawn.The Rick must have mowed badgirl's lawn.The Rick must have mowed badgirl's lawn.The Rick must have mowed badgirl's lawn.The Rick must have mowed badgirl's lawn.The Rick must have mowed badgirl's lawn.The Rick must have mowed badgirl's lawn.The Rick must have mowed badgirl's lawn.The Rick must have mowed badgirl's lawn.The Rick must have mowed badgirl's lawn.The Rick must have mowed badgirl's lawn.
   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2012, 09:53 AM   #19
patteeu patteeu is offline
The 23rd Pillar
 
patteeu's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Casino cash: $417180
Quote:
Originally Posted by J Diddy View Post
1. Pro-abortion and pro-choice are two separate things. Despite the quick lip service you gave to it, it is a big issue. Not something that you make sound like is highly unlikely.
I used "pro-abortion" intentionally. A person from Massachusetts would have to be more than just pro-choice to worry about the impact of a Roe v Wade reversal. They'd have to be a crusading pro-abortionist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J Diddy View Post
2. He could but he might not.--Great argument
As CiC, he has more power to make a change like this than on an issue like abortion, but I doubt that he'd do it. --Great reading comprehension.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J Diddy View Post
3. Despite whether or not it happens is not the point. He supports a ban on gay marriage--that's his position. You vote for people on where their position is not on probability of outcome to spite that position.
That was Obama's position in 2008 (speaking of flip flops). You might vote based on obviously empty rhetoric, but I vote on probability of outcome. You can be tediously thoughtless sometimes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J Diddy View Post
4. I would agree with you there.
You win me back just a little at moments like this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J Diddy View Post
5. Stem cell research is a big thing. It needs to be advanced not cut.
Stem cell research isn't in any jeopardy, just federal funding for it. It's certainly not a big thing compared to our economy or the government's out-of-control fiscal house. You're welcome to your own opinion on this, but I'm confident that a deficit-hawk like Amnorix would agree with me on this point.
__________________


Obamacare’s fix for an American health care system that the federal government long ago broke, is to give the federal government far more power over American health care; that its solution to escalating health costs is to mandate greater health benefits (and, hence, higher costs); and that its solution to the pricey overreliance on pre-paid health plans — offered by insurance companies in lieu of real insurance — is to have the government require Americans to buy those pre-paid health plans under penalty of law.
Posts: 67,221
patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.
   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2012, 10:08 AM   #20
KC native KC native is offline
To the cloud
 
KC native's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Casino cash: $1027599
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rick View Post
Who told you that? Obama?
No, that comes from the few details that Mittens has released on his tax policy.
__________________
The diameter of your knowledge is the circumference of your actions. Ras Kass

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowanian View Post
I'm just a little pussy from Iowa
Posts: 10,779
KC native has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.KC native has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.KC native has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.KC native has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.KC native has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.KC native has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.KC native has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.KC native has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.KC native has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.KC native has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.KC native has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.
   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2012, 10:23 AM   #21
blaise blaise is offline
MVP
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Plano, TX
Casino cash: $392
I hope Romney wins mostly because of the comedic effect it will have on the board.
Posts: 16,734
blaise has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.blaise has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.blaise has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.blaise has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.blaise has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.blaise has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.blaise has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.blaise has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.blaise has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.blaise has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.blaise has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.
   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2012, 10:25 AM   #22
La literatura La literatura is offline
MVP
 
La literatura's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2011
Casino cash: $50809
Quote:
Originally Posted by blaise View Post
I hope Romney wins mostly because of the comedic effect it will have on the board.
Like what?
Posts: 7,171
La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.
   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2012, 10:27 AM   #23
La literatura La literatura is offline
MVP
 
La literatura's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2011
Casino cash: $50809
If you think Romney is going to be better for the economy, I don't think you should allow your concerns about social conservatism to get in the way. Romney is not quite a social conservative. He's what was formerly called a Rockefeller Republican. If you think the economy will get better under Romney than Obama, you should vote for Romney. That's just my opinion.
Posts: 7,171
La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.
   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2012, 10:32 AM   #24
patteeu patteeu is offline
The 23rd Pillar
 
patteeu's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Casino cash: $417180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Literature View Post
Like what?
I think it will be best if you wait and see. Surprises are wonderful.
__________________


Obamacare’s fix for an American health care system that the federal government long ago broke, is to give the federal government far more power over American health care; that its solution to escalating health costs is to mandate greater health benefits (and, hence, higher costs); and that its solution to the pricey overreliance on pre-paid health plans — offered by insurance companies in lieu of real insurance — is to have the government require Americans to buy those pre-paid health plans under penalty of law.
Posts: 67,221
patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.
   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2012, 10:34 AM   #25
Amnorix Amnorix is offline
In BB I trust
 
Amnorix's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2003
Location: Boston, Mass.
Casino cash: $196137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Literature View Post
If you think Romney is going to be better for the economy, I don't think you should allow your concerns about social conservatism to get in the way. Romney is not quite a social conservative. He's what was formerly called a Rockefeller Republican. If you think the economy will get better under Romney than Obama, you should vote for Romney. That's just my opinion.

That is quite likely what I would do IF I was more certain that Romney would be better for the economy.

Just to be clear, I think there is a VERY high percentage that the economy recovers in the '13'16 timeframe no matter who we elect. Sure, there's plenty that could screw that up -- Europe's woes worsening or, JFC, a dirty bomb in NYC -- but just based on things that are mostly under our control, the economy should improve.

How much more under one versus the other becomes the real question. Is deregulation really a great idea given how badly the banks screwed up so recently? Are the Republicans going to once again "charge" economic growth on the nation's credit card, ignoring the deficit, as they have done in the past?

Frankly, I don't love or hate either candidate, really, so it's a pretty close call for me. Lots of plusses and minuses for both in my book.

Most here view one or the other as the Anti-Christ, but I don't. Claims that Obama is some kind of Anti-American Islamic Socialist are just lunacy.
__________________
"I love signature blocks on the Internet. I get to put whatever the hell I want in quotes, pick a pretend author, and bang, it's like he really said it." George Washington
Posts: 31,112
Amnorix 's phone was tapped by Scott *****.Amnorix 's phone was tapped by Scott *****.Amnorix 's phone was tapped by Scott *****.Amnorix 's phone was tapped by Scott *****.Amnorix 's phone was tapped by Scott *****.Amnorix 's phone was tapped by Scott *****.Amnorix 's phone was tapped by Scott *****.Amnorix 's phone was tapped by Scott *****.Amnorix 's phone was tapped by Scott *****.Amnorix 's phone was tapped by Scott *****.Amnorix 's phone was tapped by Scott *****.
   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2012, 10:35 AM   #26
La literatura La literatura is offline
MVP
 
La literatura's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2011
Casino cash: $50809
Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I think it will be best if you wait and see. Surprises are wonderful.
Do you also tend to think blaise is talking about all the awkward moments of President Romney attempting to relate to the American working class?
Posts: 7,171
La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.
   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2012, 10:40 AM   #27
La literatura La literatura is offline
MVP
 
La literatura's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2011
Casino cash: $50809
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
That is quite likely what I would do IF I was more certain that Romney would be better for the economy.

Just to be clear, I think there is a VERY high percentage that the economy recovers in the '13'16 timeframe no matter who we elect. Sure, there's plenty that could screw that up -- Europe's woes worsening or, JFC, a dirty bomb in NYC -- but just based on things that are mostly under our control, the economy should improve.

How much more under one versus the other becomes the real question. Is deregulation really a great idea given how badly the banks screwed up so recently? Are the Republicans going to once again "charge" economic growth on the nation's credit card, ignoring the deficit, as they have done in the past?

Frankly, I don't love or hate either candidate, really, so it's a pretty close call for me. Lots of plusses and minuses for both in my book.

Most here view one or the other as the Anti-Christ, but I don't. Claims that Obama is some kind of Anti-American Islamic Socialist are just lunacy.
I'm completely in agreement with you, by the way. I think both candidates are good candidates, and the U.S. economy will continue to improve under either, for the short term. I do tend to think that more regulation is vitally necessary for our economy's long-term stability, that austerity is unnecessary at this moment, and that stimulus remains helpful at this point in a small dosages.
Posts: 7,171
La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.
   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2012, 10:45 AM   #28
dirk digler dirk digler is offline
Please squeeze
 
dirk digler's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Clinton, MO
Casino cash: $160681
Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I think it will be best if you wait and see. Surprises are wonderful.
You said the same thing in 2008. You are good with predictions.
Posts: 45,103
dirk digler threw an interception on a screen pass.dirk digler threw an interception on a screen pass.dirk digler threw an interception on a screen pass.dirk digler threw an interception on a screen pass.dirk digler threw an interception on a screen pass.dirk digler threw an interception on a screen pass.dirk digler threw an interception on a screen pass.dirk digler threw an interception on a screen pass.dirk digler threw an interception on a screen pass.dirk digler threw an interception on a screen pass.dirk digler threw an interception on a screen pass.
   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2012, 10:45 AM   #29
patteeu patteeu is offline
The 23rd Pillar
 
patteeu's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Casino cash: $417180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Literature View Post
Do you also tend to think blaise is talking about all the awkward moments of President Romney attempting to relate to the American working class?
No
__________________


Obamacare’s fix for an American health care system that the federal government long ago broke, is to give the federal government far more power over American health care; that its solution to escalating health costs is to mandate greater health benefits (and, hence, higher costs); and that its solution to the pricey overreliance on pre-paid health plans — offered by insurance companies in lieu of real insurance — is to have the government require Americans to buy those pre-paid health plans under penalty of law.
Posts: 67,221
patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.
   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2012, 10:46 AM   #30
dirk digler dirk digler is offline
Please squeeze
 
dirk digler's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Clinton, MO
Casino cash: $160681
Oh and Amnorix I wouldn't try to struggle to much Romney is going to lose your state (his home state) by 20-30%.

The more important issue is who are you going to vote for in the Senate, Brown or Warren?
Posts: 45,103
dirk digler threw an interception on a screen pass.dirk digler threw an interception on a screen pass.dirk digler threw an interception on a screen pass.dirk digler threw an interception on a screen pass.dirk digler threw an interception on a screen pass.dirk digler threw an interception on a screen pass.dirk digler threw an interception on a screen pass.dirk digler threw an interception on a screen pass.dirk digler threw an interception on a screen pass.dirk digler threw an interception on a screen pass.dirk digler threw an interception on a screen pass.
   Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 2 of 6 1 2 3456

« Previous Thread | > The Lounge > D.C. < | Next Thread »
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:34 PM.

Contact Us - ChiefsPlanet - Archive - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.