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Old 09-20-2012, 08:53 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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The US military suspends joint operations with Afghan soldiers.

The ENTIRE basis for our involvement in Afghanistan at the very start, THE VERY START, was to oust al Qaeda and build a nation that can protect itself with a central government.

Central to that -- at the very center of all of this -- is training Afghani troops.

Due to the number of green-on-blue attacks (i.e. Afghani troops turning their guns on American soldiers training them) which are only increasing by the month, the United States has suspended operations cooperate with them.

This is a ****ing disaster. This is a decade-plus-long war that cannot be won, because our core goal is not met and seemingly can never be met without spending untold treasure and spilling even more blood trying to get EVEN A COMPETENT central defense established.

Progress was decent enough, but green-on-blue attacks have gotten worse and the Afghani military leaders themselves don't even know the true loyalty of the Afghani troops they're cultivating. Rumors are, Pakistan is sending over some Taliban to get money and weaponry.

But the American military itself only attributes 10% of these attacks to the Taliban. Most of them are just regular Afghanis turning their guns on us for a multitude of reasons, one of the most recent being the Mohammed YouTube that came out recently.

This whole mission is ****ed. There doesn't seem to be any way out of there without leaving a propped up corrupt leader who sympathizes with the Taliban, won't allow free, uncorrupted elections, and without an adequately trained security force.

Was it ever worth it? Can it still be worth it? What can be done?

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blog...#ixzz272imoh3j

The Definition of a Quagmire
Posted by Dexter Filkins
September 20, 2012

We can’t win the war in Afghanistan, so what do we do? We’ll train the Afghans to do it for us, then claim victory and head for the exits.

But what happens if we can’t train the Afghans?

We’re about to find out. It’s difficult to overstate just how calamitous the decision, announced Tuesday, to suspend most joint combat patrols between Afghan soldiers and their American and NATO mentors is. Preparing the Afghan Army and police to fight without us is the foundation of the Obama Administration’s strategy to withdraw most American forces—and have them stop fighting entirely—by the end of 2014. It’s our ticket home. As I outlined in a piece earlier this year, President Obama’s strategy amounts to an enormous gamble, and one that hasn’t, so far, shown a lot of promise. That makes this latest move all the more disastrous. We’re running out of time.

According to American military officers, the order suspends joint patrolling at the battalion-level and below without approval of a general. An American battalion is made up of about eight hundred soldiers; an Afghan battalion is about half that size. The overwhelming majority of foot patrols—and the overwhelming majority of the fighting with the Taliban—take place at this level. The order effectively means that, for now, Afghan soldiers and police operating in the field are largely on their own.

The decision, announced earlier this week, was prompted by the extraordinary rise in so-called green-on-blue attacks—the killing of Americans by Afghan soldiers. So far this year, more than fifty American and NATO soldiers have been killed by Afghan soldiers or recruits—a sixth of the three hundred and forty who have died this year. The most recent spate of green-on-blue deaths—four Americans on Sunday and two British on Saturday—coincided with a wave of anti-American riots around the world that followed the online distribution of a crude video depicting the Prophet Muhammad as a lecher and a fool.

In some ways, it would be comforting if the Afghans who were doing these killings were Taliban agents who’d slipped inside American training camps. There is some truth to this notion, but not much. When I was in Afghanistan this spring, a senior Afghan defense official told me that he and his fellow officials had little knowledge of the loyalties—or even the nationalities—of many of the new recruits. Many, he said, were presumed to have been sent by Pakistani intelligence officials from across the border. An American official told me that “several hundred” Afghan recruits, including some officers, had been identified as loyal either to the Taliban or to the Pakistanis.

As bad as that sounds, though, the reality is much worse. By the Americans’ own accounting, only ten per cent of the green-on-blue attacks have been carried out by Taliban infiltrators. The overwhelming majority of green-on-blue attacks are coming from ordinary Afghans signing up for the military. The very people we are trying to help fight the Taliban are turning their guns on us.

You can imagine the level of anxiety among American and European trainers who are sharing bases with Afghan recruits. Recent measures announced by American commanders to protect their soldiers and marines haven’t been enough. And how could they be? It’s the nature of the American mission to walk “shoulder-to-shoulder” with Afghan soldiers, who are often just as well armed as the Americans are. All you have to do is turn your gun on the guy walking next to you.

Which leads us back to the decision to ban joint patrols. When I was in Afghanistan in April and May, it was clear that the entire thrust of the American-led mission was to train Afghan forces as quickly as possible, so that we could stay on our departure schedule. The principal means to that end, I was told repeatedly by senior commanders, was carrying out operations together. (I heard the phrase “shoulder to shoulder” so often I started repeating it in my sleep.) The reason for this was simple: Afghan soldiers typically perform much better when American soldiers are with them. The Afghans fight better, feel better, and abuse each other, and Afghan civilians, less. Until this week’s decision, the commanders told me, the overwhelming majority of military operations were carried out by Afghans and Americans on joint operations. As of today, this is no longer true.

I suppose it’s possible that the decision to ban joint patrols will be lifted in a week or so, and that everything will return to normal. Possible—but not likely. The Americans have been in Afghanistan for eleven years. We can’t remain much longer because we’ve overstayed our welcome, even among our friends. And we can’t leave, either, because leaving could lead to a Taliban takeover or a very bloody civil war—and now we can barely train the local troops to take over for us.

We can’t leave and we can’t stay: that’s the very definition of a quagmire.
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Old 09-21-2012, 01:11 PM   #16
Aries Walker Aries Walker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Why is Afghanistan to resistant?

Alexander the Great, the British Empire, the Soviets, the American military machine...
Alexander actually didn't do that badly there. He took a couple of cities and stayed as long as he did in neighboring areas - he even founded Kandahar.
His empire reached as far as India.

The Mongols and the forces of Tamerlane both conquered and held Afghanistan, the latter for several centuries.

British India invaded, held for a while, fought again, and finally signed a treaty to leave. The USSR's invasion was pretty dreadful, and you all know about ours.
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Old 09-21-2012, 01:42 PM   #17
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You can't domesticate all of the wild animals. Get our boys out of there, leaving behind the assurance that any aggression originating from their lands will result in horrific retribution from above.
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Old 09-21-2012, 01:52 PM   #18
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get the **** out of there yesterday.
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Old 09-21-2012, 01:57 PM   #19
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But we weren't/aren't trying to conquer it. We want to give them a stable self-governed country. But it isn't feasible at anything within remotely reasonable timeframe, human life and economic costs.
That's a step beyond conquering, really.
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Old 09-22-2012, 06:50 PM   #20
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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This news came about the same time as the surge troops have completely exited the country.

Last of 33,000 US surge troops leave Afghanistan
By The Associated Press

God damn. What a profound shitfest.
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Old 09-28-2012, 06:37 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by frazod View Post
Making contractors and weapon manufacturers filthy rich.

Sorry bro....Contractors aren't making $$$ in Astan....Rates in Astan have always run 15-20% less then Iraq. Orginally Astan was less of a threat then Iraq, so the rates never went up....With the current economy the rates can continue to be low and are even dropping.

2 Contracts released in the last 6 months 1 is paying $200. a day, prior Security Clearance required, the 2nd pays 175.00 a day also cleared. That's for 12hr shifts 7 days a week, 1 30 day leave for the year.

Goverment contracts are awarded to the low bidder.
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